My 2013 Fiat 500C with 33k miles has gotten to a point where every morning the cart tries to start but dies, Thereafter the car will start and be fine for the day. The next morning same thing. So I took it to a Fiat dealer. They indicated nothing was wrong with car. They waited a day and they had the same no cold start but on second attempt starts and runs fine. They chose to change the spark plugs claiming Fiat recommends a change every 30k miles and the plugs were fouled. They also changed an O2 sensor and o-ring. They claimed success. We arrived on the weekend to collect the car (we live 90 miles from the Fiat dealer). Not only did the Fiat not cold start but on the second try the car would barely run seemingly only 2-3 plugs were firing. We left the car in disgust after paying $400 for the alleged repair. The next day (Monday) they started the car and agreed it was now worse off than when we left the car with them. They also claim there is nothing wrong with the car based on their sensor information but do agree something is causing the plugs to foul severely. It seems the mechanics can only fix what a diagnostic tells them as opposed to understanding how the engine works and fixing the problem. We are now waiting on a special diagnostic tool from Fiat to āsee into the engine/ā (They have had the car now 2 weeks.) What should I do? Obviously the plugs were not the problemā¦What financial settlement should be agreed upon? What do I do if the dealer gives up? Are Fiat 500C;s generally worn out after 4 years and 33k miles? Help!!!
Tighten the engine groundā¦that might fix it. This seems to be a common problem with these cars according to The Fiat 500 forum.
Not sure what you mean by that statement. The vehicle is four years old and most likely out of warranty. All they have to do is stand behind their work and try to fix the problem. In the meantime call repair shops close to you and ask if they think they can possibly fix it if the dealer gives up.
What I am saying is that the plugs were not the problem. They had no diagnostic information and chose to change the plugs and hoped it was a fix. As it was not a fix, perhaps I should have my old plugs put back in? Why should one pay for a items unrelated to the problem?
Because thatās the way the system usually works.
;-]
No, you shouldnāt.
Why should you pay? Because in trying to solve a problem, itās often prudent to get the basics up to date. Often that fixes the problem, sometimes it doesnāt.
My personal first-check would be fuel related. Itās possible that your fuel line is losing pressureā¦ and even fuel, while sitting overnight.
If you get the car back uncorrected, on the next cold start try turning the key to ON but not to START a few times for a few seconds each before turning the key to START. If that eliminates the symptom, thatād mean that the pump has refilled and pressurized the fuel line before trying to start the engineā¦ confirming my suggestion as the cause. If that happens, you can get it fixed or simply build that extra step into your morning protocol.
Or, you could ask the shop not to try to start it tomorrow and you yourself stop by and try it. If it works, they might even appreciate your input.
Well, in my opinion, if they have not provided you with a free loaner car, then they should be paying for the cheapest rental car that is available, so that you donāt have to incur extra expense just to be able to get around while they try to figure out exactly what is wrong with your car. Other than a free loaner or payment for a rental car, I canāt envision any other type of āfinancial settlementā.
The dealership guys clearly arenāt adhering to the concept of āverify the repairā . . . if they had, they would have known their procedures did NOT fix the problem
In fact, it sounds like they didnāt even perform a proper diagnosis in the first place. Instead of diagnosing, they rolled the dice
Either they get their best guy on it . . . and who knows just how good he is . . . or maybe you should get the car properly diagnosed and repaired elsewhere. Iām envisioning an independent shop with middle-aged guys who work on all makes and are keen on retaining their good reputation as the āgo to guysā
Who knows what standards Fiat used when they were trolling for dealerships a few years ago?
I think back to the standards (ha!) that Datsun used when they first entered the US marketplace in the '60s, and I can tell you from personal experience that almost anyone who was willing to pay for a franchise got one.
The Datsun dealership nearest to usāwhich had previously been a ābuy here, pay hereā used car lot with the worst reputation in townāwas somehow able to obtaināand retainātheir Datsun franchise despite having NO service department other than an elderly man who washed the cars prior to delivery.
After my brotherās first wife decided to buy a Datsun SPL-311 from that dealership, we found out that their āservice departmentā was a Gulf gas station a couple of blocks away. And, the guy who owned the Gulf station had never been trained on diagnosing and repairing Datsuns! Your car would be returned to you w/o the needed repairs being made, and when you complained to the two Mafioso brothers who ran the Datsun dealership, they made it very clear that it was not in your best interests to ever return to them for service.
Datsun/Nissan allowed those sleazebags to retain their franchise for at least 25 years. Perhaps Fiat has similarly low/non-existent standards for their franchisees.
Good grief . . . !
ābuy here, pay hereā used car lots have a reputation for being among the most blood-thirsty and sleaziest of the bunch
Iām almost cringing thinking of the treatment the customers of this Datsun ādealershipā received
Amazing that Datsun allowed them to hang onto the franchise for that long . . . did they sell lots of vehicles? I imagine because of their employeesā attitudes, the dealership guys didnāt spend much time on warranty repairs, which would be viewed as a good thing, from the corporate perspective.
I agree. They sell cars to people that they canāt afford, and then when the buyer defaults the seller immediately repos the car and puts it back up for saleā¦ to someone else that canāt afford it. Ultimately, someone buys it who can afford it, but by then theyāve sold it two or three timesā¦ never reimbursing a dime.
I agree with everything you said, but another thing sets them apart . . .
Their prices are WAY out of line with other places, that is when they even bother to list a price, and the cars are old, worn out and have high mileage
Even though their name may not be a dead give away . . . some of the names sound harmless enough . . . their prices, or lack thereof, might alert somebody that itās best to shop elsewhere
In my opinion, these businesses serve to enrichen the owners, while exploiting people who are in a bad way, and havenāt done their homework. The business model is a gold mine, but at the expense of many people along the way
itās amazing that a car that should be worth very little, due to its age and condition, could be so lucrative for a business
I feel that a lot of their customers WOULD shop elsewhere, if theyād done their homework and known what they were about to agree to. I suppose desperation can lead to poor decisions
If there is a niche, somebody will fill it
I wholeheartedly agree, but Iād reword that to āif thereās a possibility of screwing the unwary, some crook will exploit itā.
I was trying to be diplomatic . . . because as of this moment, I believe thereās nothing illegal about the buy here pay here business model . . . but you were very blunt and accurate
But just because something is legal doesnāt necessarily mean itās particularly moral.
I guess the lesson is ādo your homeworkā and āread everything before signingā
Iām sure more than a few customers have been pressured to āJust sign here. Everything will be fineā
Thank you for your contribution. We did try the fuel idea earlier, but no help.
I donāt know if they sold a lot of vehicles, but apparently they sold enough to stay in business and apparently Datsun/Nissan ignored the huge number of complaints about that franchise.
I recall that the uncle of a friend of mine bought a car there, andālike everyone elseāhad a totally negative experience when returning for warranty-related repairs. After one of the shiny-suited brothers who owned the place convinced him to never return, he quipped, āYou know, you should replace the letter āPā that fell off of your signā.
The name of the dealership was āRickāsā.
They were really terrible human beings, but that was not the last of their breed in that same city.
Fast forward to the '90s, and there was a Honda dealership in the same city that used to remove OEM batteries, spark plugs, and tires from new cars, and substitute cheap junk that they bought from the Pep Boys store across the road. Then, they would sell the purloined parts in their parts department.
They were finally put out of business by the NJ Attorney Generalās Office.
@VDCdriver. I canāt imagine switching the parts in the new Hondas for cheap parts from Pep Boys would generate a lot of profit for the dealer. Most people donāt buy tires and batteries from the dealer. The batteries might go flat from.aging. I would think it would cost more in labor to.change the spark plugs than the profit gained
This reminds me of.a pizza shop.in the town where I attended college. The prices on the.menu were set at strange amounts and my friend figured out that he did this to collect an extra penny on each sale. When my friend and.I went to pay our checks,.my friend pointed out that he didnāt owe the extra penny. The proprietor ordered us to leave.immediately. We did just that and when we got outside we.realized that we hadnāt paid.for our meal. I often wondered how long at penny gouging it took the proprietor to make up the loss on our free meals.
Well, it wasnāt my business plan, and I donāt think that the guys (another pair of brothers) were exactly rocket scientists. 
All it took (after who knows how many years) for their scam to be exposed was one very observant indy mechanic who spotted the non-OEM parts on a nearly-new Accord that he was servicing. That led to a lengthy AG investigation, and that ledāeventuallyāto so many fines being imposed on those guys that they opted to sell their businesses (they had several dealerships) before they lost everything.