@Idle-Free
"JoeMario - If a doctor told me I have cancer, I would not ignore it. If Mr. Ciatti, an expert in his field http://www.anl.gov/contributors/steve-ciatti and other engine experts tell me idling is not good for an engine, I will heed that advice. Fortunately, most sensible, open-minded people will also."
Mr./Ms. Idle-Free, All the experts agree that running an engine causes wear. It’s unavoidable.
However, one can choose not to run it. You seem sensible and open-minded. Perhaps you could consider walking everywhere you go, eh? Why second guess experts?
By the way, one of your experts indicated that parts of the U.S. would be underwater by now because of mankind’s use misuse of energy. I’m disappointed to find out that it was not accurate. What gives? Some experts are more expert than others?
CSA
JoeMario - That’s ok…we can respectfully disagree. I’d read Mr. Ciatti’s clearly stated quotes on how idling engine wear works in the original article. He doesn’t say how many miles less an engine will last. I don’t have that answer. But it will be less than an engine that has less idling miles on it.
Sunday afternoon drives: it’s up to you. I wouldn’t say to eliminate them. But there is an impact in energy and carbon from driving an ICE vehicle. That wasn’t known decades ago, but now we do know. Accordingly it has changed my driving habits more than any fuel costs would.
Idle-Free: As I stated I warm-up at idle until RPMs reduce from 1,500 to 1,000 (15 to 30 seconds) . I do not exceed 1,800 to 2,000 rpms for the entire 18.5 mile trip, and in addition I am at normal operating temperature when I reach the 55 mph highway. Then driving at 1,800 RPM for 18 miles. I think I am quite OK! By the way I don’t drive a Subaru so your Subaru advise is N/A. I stated I am not in a cold weather zone. Do you have a reading comprehension problem or lack of proper motor vehicle operation problem?
Barkydog: You are correct most motor vehicles can idle until they run out of fuel with no appreciable harm. They just get zero miles per gallon.
sgtrock21 - I did not respond to the fact you are not in a cold weather zone, so you’re probably correct that even in 1/2 mile you get to 55mph, you should be fine. I am having to respond to many others here (and I have a job to do too!), sorry.
I have provided valuable information and resources on this subject for Car Talk readers, but I think I will end my comments for now.
Not a westie, though they are fun dogs but a Cairn Terrier probably, as our daughter pulled the freezing whimpering puppy, 6 weeks old out of a snow bank in an alley while home for xmas break. We have always had German Shepherds or golden retrievers, and found a new love for small dogs, the 90 year old or so mother and MIL love the little critter, and I buy stupid outfits to make the old people laugh, superman outfit, pink tutu etc.
@Idle-Free cannot change the workers, but not on a severe service schedule for idle time being at least 3x driving time, the 93 we got rid of last fall had a leaking due to rusted oil pan, brake lines, and exhaust manifold bolts where the heads of the bolts were totally gone, only 39k miles, but spent it’s life idleing near work sites. Real world experience.
Could the diesel truck manufacturers be advocating drastically reducing the time their engines are idling in response to pressure from states? Those truck manufacturers don’t want to find themselves on a black list in California.
I Have Owned And Operated Cars For Over 50 Years. Many Of Them Have Exceeded 300,000 Miles. I’ve Never Worn Out An Engine Regardless Of How I Choose To Idle.
I’m Not All That Interested In Fuel Economy.
What The Experts Recommend About Idling Is Irrelevant And Make Little Sense To Me. Also, What Has Been Pointed Out Is That The “Experts” Don’t Say How Many Miles Worth Of Wear Idling Causes. From My Own Experience, It Can’t Be Much And Certainly Not Enough To Cause A Noticeable Difference.
Fact: Washing Clothes Adds Wear To The Clothing (Ask The Experts) , But I’m Not Going To Stop Washing My Clothes, In Fact I’m Not Going To Wash Them Less, Either.
Not Everything The “Experts” Determine Has Practical Value. Common Sense Prevails (No Pun Intended).
The Reason That I Asked What The Government Pays Mr. Ciatti Is Because Many “Experts” Are Hired And Expected To Reach Conclusions That Support A Predetermined Agenda. I Still Cannot Find The Answer To My Query In This “Most Transparent Government” Ever To Exist.
CSA
While I appreciate the fuel savings from not idling (and I appreciate your keeping perspective by acknowledging defrosting the windshield takes priority)…conversations of this sort are off-putting, to me, because they tend to devolve into somebody cajoling me into behaving as they would like me to, in the name of a Greater Common Good. (That’s the begnign form, BTW: the malignant form is when somebody tries to compel me, against my will, into changing for the GCG.)
I love the environment–but I love my personal liberty at least as much so. I’m hesitant to jump on many bandwagons like these–being told how I “ought” to behave tends to draw out my contrarian streak. From a purely technological point, it isn’t necessary, in most cars, to idle extended periods in cold weather–that’s 30 years out-of-date, back when we had carburetors. However, the thought of idling cars being gross polluters while they warm up–is a good 20 years out-of-date. That’s when we started encountering close-coupled cats and heated O2 sensors, both of which enable a car to be running clean in 30 seconds or less after start.
My advice is to take care of one’s own affairs, and to leave proseltyzing alone, as it quite frequently backfires.
Our city has a “no unnecessary idling” policy for its vehicles . The focus is on air quality and reduced engine wear, as well as fuel savings.
common sense answer: I recently watched a documentary on the history of marijuana. It was stated that our federal government would only fund studies if their purpose was to reinforce why marijuana should not be legalized.
meanjoe75fan: I became a bit frustrated by Idle Free questioning my ability to accelerate normally from 0 to 55 mph without exceeding 2,000 RPMs. I do it all the time. I did it Thursday. I overlooked the GCG angle. Now I’m approching angry.
Keep in mind that most advice on idling is now environmentally driven and disregards the owner’s need to maximize engine life. I therefore stick to the principle of getting lubrication first and then taking off. That can vary depending on ambient temperatures.
sgtrock21
"common sense answer: I recently watched a documentary on the history of marijuana. It was stated that our federal government would only fund studies if their purpose was to reinforce why marijuana should not be legalized."
I’m confident that delivered the finest “unbiased” research results that money (tax payer dollars or rather National Debt, future tax payer dollars) could buy. :neutral:
That would happen with the government hiring an “expert” on car idling too, right? Even if that person was paid unbelievable amounts of tax payer dollars, the individual would remain unbiased, right?
CSA
Just curious, is there any objective engineering study evidence from an unbiased, peer reviewed source comparing econobox engine wear or damage between these two cases
Case 1: Start the engine, let it idle 5 minutes, then drive to your destination.
Case 2: Start the engine and immediately drive to your destination.
“Just curious, is there any objective engineering study evidence from an unbiased, peer reviewed source comparing econobox engine wear or damage between these two cases”
Why would there be one? I seriously can’t think of a reason why.
I idle my cars when I want to idle. When I can’t find a nut cracker to crack nuts, I use channel locks or vise grips. They work great. Would somebody do an unbiased study comparing pliers to nut crackers? I doubt it and who cares?
CSA
Isn’t that what the OP’s claiming? That idling hurts your engine?
If that’s the claim, all I’m asking is for some supporting unbiased scientific evidence supporting the claim. Why? B/c I highly doubt 5 minutes of idling before driving off to your destination hurts an engine.
If that’s the claim, all I’m asking is for some supporting unbiased scientific evidence supporting the claim.
I know, George. but who would want to do an unbiased study? They’d have to get paid… then how unbiased is it going to be? Nobody wants to know the results unless they’ve got an agenda.
I would say that such a study does not exist.
CSA
Here’s another way to look at it:
The concern is with engine wear when someone lets their vehicle warm up for a few minutes on cold mornings.
But is there any concern when that same driver spends hundreds of hours per year idling in traffic jams commuting to work? Millions of drivers do that each year and never see harmful engine wear from it.
Mr./Mrs. Idle-Free told Joe Mario,
“JoeMario - If a doctor told me I have cancer, I would not ignore it. If Mr. Ciatti, an expert in his field http://www.anl.gov/contributors/steve-ciatti and other engine experts tell me idling is not good for an engine, I will heed that advice. Fortunately, most sensible, open-minded people will also.”
Yikes! Whoa Nellie!
No offense to doctors (the really good ones would agree with me), but Mr./Mrs. Idle-Free and anybody else reading this would do well to read the recently published book I have read. The book is written by a doctor!
Read Don’t Let Your Doctor Kill You by Dr. Erika Schwartz, MD.
Seriously folks, you can thank me later. This book can save your life or the life of loved ones.
Mr./Mrs. Idle-Free, I would not ignore what a doctor tells me either, but I would be skeptical until I checked it out, thoroughly. Don’t make the mistake of believing that all “experts” know what the #$!% they’re talking about.
CSA