EV Battery Degradation

Is it a repair or a replacement transmission? Seems out of whack for a repair. Labor cost is fairly low for a rebuild and parts cost is pretty high. Seems more in line with a replacement but ??

Either one can be repaired and either one can be replaced…

The very reason I chose a Toyota hybrid.

It’s a timeless fear. Technology marches on with relentless pace :wink: Eventually, people come around to accept any technology that is proven. It took me awhile and then I had to need/want a new car which doesn’t come around very often for me.

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Havent done it yet but a hybrid battery is $2,000 installed with upgraded cells for a 2010 prius.

We paid $1,500 in about 1995 to rebuild the 3spd auto in our 88 grand voyager at everyone’s favorite chain. The rebuild was still going on 2013 when dad finally sold it.

Spending $2,000 on an otherwise reliable car is nothing compared to what we threw at the Grand Voyager which our mechanics hated even more than we did. The prius asks for an oil change and tire rotation every 5k. The 12v battery has been the only real failure and thats every 7yrs on average.

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You’re assuming it’s for a transmission and not a battery then? And what’s the difference between repair or replacement with a rebuilt unit? Some manufacturers train their dealership techs to rebuild transmissions in-house, some manufacturers train their dealership techs to rebuild HV battery packs in-house.

For the record, the repair order was for a transmission repair. Hard parts are expensive.

Yeah, but we still have to drag some of them kicking and screaming, don’t we? Think about what would happen if someone invented the gasoline car today. You want to put 20 gallons of a highly flammable liquid in a tank that doesn’t even have a child-proof cap, put it on wheels, and let a 16 year old drive it around?:grinning_face:

Back to the main point, many people out there are clueless about the actual effects of battery degradation and just use it as a talking point. The fact is, if your Prius battery is degraded at 150,000 miles, the car still works fine, you’re just getting 45mpg instead of 52. If your Tesla battery is degraded after 7 years the car still works fine, you just have a range of 210 miles instead of 270.

If your F150 transmission is “degraded”, the truck doesn’t move. And yet people still talk about “What if it needs a new battery?”

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Dropping an electric pump down in a gas tank and it not blow up even when almost empty, out in the fumes… Still think about that one…

But a few years ago when we were bring that 1984 Civic back to life, the gas tank leaked, so I grabbed a gas can and ran a hose from the mechanical pump to the gas can so we could start it, well it didn’t take long for the gas smell to hit lol, Forgot about the return hose going back to the place where the tank was before we removed it… So I grabbed my 2 shop fans and turned them on to push and pull the fumes out of the garage/shop until we were able to mop all the gas up… On a positive note, the floor hadn’t been that clean in a while… All those gas fumes went through the electric fan and didn’t blow up or flash burn…

I know they older long time guys (foreman and service manager) at U-Haul used to cut the side tanks off of the medium trucks that when taken out of service for whatever reason could not be sold and had to be cut up and thrown away, yes frames and all went into the dumpster(s), they never would say why… But yeah they used the oxy acetylene cutting torch to cut the straps on the gas tanks, the fuel was siphoned out only, no water was added nor where they flushed out…

When ICE cars were first introduced, the folks who favored horse-drawn wagons were almost unanimous that those new-fangled cars were just a passing fancy.

In the early years of the 20th Century, when gas, battery electric, and steam-powered cars were all considered to be viable, I wonder if the adherents of battery electrics and steam were unanimous in their condemnation of gas. Did they persist for several years in believing that ICE cars were not practical?

Much more recently, when power windows transitioned from hydraulic power to electric power, did the supporters of hydraulics lament the absence of oily stains on their interior door panels?

When automatic transmissions were introduced, some people claimed that drivers’ left legs would atrophy, due to less of a workout. And, they insisted that those new-fangled automatic transmissions would never equal or exceed the fuel economy of a stick shift… even though that eventually became reality

The bottom line is that many people resist change of any type, even when there is ample evidence that they are wrong.

Edited to add… Resistance to change takes place in all areas of our lives, not just in regard to cars. An old friend (recently deceased) used to claim that the tellers in his local branch bank screwed-up his deposits and other transactions regularly. He also complained that his retirement checks were frequently delayed in the mail, and were lost on a couple of occasions. So, I advised him to change to Direct Deposit.

His response was… No, the dumb chicks at that branch will screw-up direct deposits. It didn’t matter how I explained to him that these transactions went directly to the bank’s mainframe computer, and that no human intervention was involved after he established direct deposit for those checks. He continued–irrationally–to resist this very logical change, and he even came-up with really bizarre reasons for not accepting technology in this regard.

Finally, he was given no choice, and he was forced to accept Direct Deposit of his retirement benefits. After a few months, I asked him to list all of the problems that he now had with his retirement checks, and–reluctantly–he admitted that Direct Deposit was problem-free.

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No. I was considering either scenario. You likened either situation to be fairly equal.

A repair can cover lots of scenarios. Maybe it’s something relatively simple that doesn’t require as much parts and labor. A replacement is what it is, not much ambiguity.

Well, that’s not exactly true but I understand the point you’re making. I’ve had compromised transmissions that still moved. Bought an older farm truck. The trans (4L80E) had brown fluid, shuddered like an old person in the cold and didn’t like to shift. But it moved and you could drive it. I changed the fluid a few times, unplugged the converter lock up and drove it like that for 8 years. It even hauled a car trailer with a Corvette on it, the bed filled to the hilt with gas tanks and a plow from Wisconsin to Massachusetts that way. Oh yeah, I also had replaced the fan clutch with a solid connection due to it wanting to overheat with the plow at highway speeds (blocking the rad). I sold it to someone else on the east coast a few years after moving. Never did repair that transmission… :smile:

Many people are clueless about lots of things but it doesn’t stop them from acting like they know more than the people who are experts. Look at all the people that did their own research during Covid for example. :grin:

From my perspective, I’m not as much worried about gradual degradation. That is something that is expected and can be quantified. I am more concerned about unexpected failure. There are a few ways the pack can fail and need repair. Again, my experience with LiON packs and premature cell failure are what caused me concern. Fast forward to today, I am much more reassured that the technology and repair operations are established and lower risk.

You’ll get no argument from me regarding the scenario of existing technology being something new today and people being leery of it. It’s the same thing, fear of the unknown. That’s my whole point. It doesn’t matter if its an ICE or a battery. People will be slow to accept.

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I for one have never liked horses and sure wouldn’t want them in my garage. I’ve never liked someone telling me how I should spend $70,000 on a vehicle either. I’ll do my own cost benefit analysis and if the glove doesn’t fit, you know the rest. Do your research and make your own decision. It has little to do with resistance to change. More like resistance to people that think they know better. Just remember some of the folks here spend more time on their bikes or bus and only fly out of town.

You need the right ratio of gasoline fumes to oxygen for rapid combustion. In the first case, not enough oxygen and in the second case, not enough gas fumes. The nose is very sensitive and can detect gas fumes in low concentrations.

But exhausting gasoline fumes with a brushed motor is risky!

We’re installing a hydrogen furnace at work for R&D. The terms hydrogen and furnace used together usually get people’s attention :smile: The risk is low due to the volume of hydrogen used but we had to make sure the facilities people installed a brushless fan on the exhaust vent to be safe :laughing:

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There are several regulars on THIS website who actively and VEHEMENTLY resist any and all change😜

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Well that could be, however, just because you are not sold on an electric car instead of an ic, and don’t see windmills and solar farms as prevention of an earth catastrophe, doesn’t mean they are resistant to change or good ideas. More like resistant to hysterical political hacks thinking the sky i# falling.

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The furnace atmosphere contains hydrogen or the fuel is hydrogen?

Furnace atmosphere. It is a shield gas for sealing operations.

And make sure that that they know if the fan should be intake or exhaust.

A vendor for sintered metal filters we bought does that.

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Another article in Jalopnik reinforces this opinion.

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