You’re right; 300 dollars will barely cover the cost of bearings, rings, and a gasket set; much less any cylinder head work at the machine shop. Not to mention those other details such as fluids, plugs, etc. and that possibly neglected timing belt/tensioners/water pump thing.
This is not likely to end well.
When I worked as a mechanic some 30+ years ago while going to college…There was a garage down the road that we competed with a lot. They were doing engine rebuilds for about half of what we were doing them for. And I found out why…it was almost EXACTLY what the OP is doing. Pull the heads…drop the pan…unbolt rods and push out pistons…replace rings and clean up the heads…The engine ran GREAT for about 2-3 months. You can replace the rod bearings…but you can’t replace the crank bearings (at least the top side)…If there’s any scaring or warpage of the cylinder walls…OH WELL… I’ve NEVER liked this method of rebuilding an engine. It’s at best a temporary stop gap. The ONLY people I know who did it were the ones who wanted to get the car running well enough to sell it to some smuck.
Lot’s of good info here. Good luck. This will definately be a good learning experience, hope things come out fine. Also when reinstalling the rods and pistons, put a small piece of rubber hose on the end of the rod bolts. This keps the threads from contacting the crank journal when installing the piston rod assembly into the cylinder. Once again good luck!
“You can replace the rod bearings…but you can’t replace the crank bearings (at least the top side)…”
Sure you can. That’s what a roll out pin is for.
Personally, I’d recommend against this entire operation. But you CAN remove bearings from an engine while it’s still in a car.
This is pretty much a train wreck waiting to happen. The best solution would be to dig around on eBay, local salvage yard, Craigslist, etc. and find another engine.
I’ve seen engines like this go for about 250-350 from the local yards here.
Hey there. OK4450, now you’re getting it. The Copper Coat spray sounds like a good idea, especially if I have warpage that’s a questionable spec. Do I spray BOTH sides of the gasket and then put it on? Also the double check on the torque the next day is a GREAT idea, too. Hadn’t thought of that. The Haynes manual does go into how to do all the other stuff mentioned, including the extra 90-degree turn after torque on the head bolts.
Now for the rest of you concerned with my expenses, here’s a copy of my Excel sheet info for you. No, I’m not doing the main bearings at this point because I have no money. When I get a job, I’ll be happy to go back and do it right. And I just spent the day hanging out with a machinist at the shop - great guy at Engler Bros. who understood my situation and taught me a few tricks. Money saver! (AZ stands for Auto Zone).
ROD BEARINGS $33.00 AZ
RINGS $96.00 AZ
VALVE GRINDING COMPOUND $5.00 ENGLER
VALVE STEM SEALS ALL 16 $43.00 KRAGEN
HEAD GASKET $48.00 KRAGEN
2 BOLTS $0.69 OSH
FREEZE PLUGS $9.00 AZ
OIL PAN GASKET $9.00 KRAGEN
OIL & FILTER $10.00 PEPBOYS
INTAKE GASKET W/ PLENUM $14.00 AZ
TOTAL $267.69
TORQUE WRENCH - INCH $20.00 PEPBOYS
PLASTIGAGE $4.00 AZ
RTV SEALANT $1.00 99C store
MICROMETER $8.00 HARBOR
8MM HEX SOCKET $4.00 AZ
HONING OIL $5.00
COMPRESSED AIR $4.00
MOLY-BASE GREASE $3.00
1/2" ADAPTER $3.24 KRAGEN
THREAD LOCKER (Locktite?) $7.00 KRAGEN
TOTAL $59.24
LOAN-A-TOOL STUFF:
TORQUE WRENCH - FT $100.00 AZ
VALVE SPRING COMPRESSOR $25.00 AZ
RING COMPRESSOR $10.00 AZ
CYLINDER HONE $25.00 AZ
RIDGE REAMER $35.00 AZ
PISTON GROOVE CLEANER?? $25.00 AZ
TOTAL $220.00 THAT I GET BACK WHEN TOOLS ARE RETURNED.
THIS STUFF I ALREADY HAVE:
DRAIN PAN
JACK STANDS
CHOCKS
CARDBOARD FOR FLOOR
THROTTLE BODY CLEANER
SCRAPER
SHARPIE
MASKING TAPE AND PEN
SHOP TOWELS
TARP
TRASH BAGS &/OR SARAN WRAP
BAGGIES
DRILL
JUMPER WIRES
TIMING GUN
WATER HOSE TO CLEAN
WD-40
PRY BAR
HAND TOOLS
GAFFER TAPE
EXTRA HOSE PIECES FOR BOLTS AND VALVES
MAGNET HEMATITE
BREAKER BAR
PARTS $267.69
TOOLS $59.24
$326.93 TOTAL COST DOLLARS
LOAN-A-TOOLS $220.00
$546.93 TOTAL COST NEEDED UP FRONT
There - now it’s a part of internet history for other very poor people who need to keep the car running. Thanks again for all your support, guys. I’ll keep you posted. speaking of, If I have any emergency questions once I get started, I’ll start another post called ENGINE REBUILD ISSUES. FYI, cuz this one is getting long. I’m sure a lot of people are learning from your posts, so I know you’re not just helping me. THANKS.
Make sure that RTV does not in any way have a route into the oil system,take this advice as true.
The train is picking up speed!
The Copper Coat is NOT going to cure a warped cylinder head problem. That is not the purpose of it.
Valve grinding compound is NOT going to cure valve/seat problems on a 250k miles cylinder head.
Not replacing worn out main bearings mean what? It means low oil pressure and this means what? It means less oil pressure to those new rod bearings so don’t be surprised if the oil lamp is flashing on you and it’s knocking shortly; or within a few minutes of startup.
I would also advise that you not get too enthusiastic with a gasket scraper on an aluminum head. Hunks of metal missing means a potential problem. I never use a gasket scraper on alum. heads.
Spray gasket remover and single edge razor blades is my M.O. Much slower, but safer.
Since you seem to be hell-bent on doing this thing, I’ll offer my 2 cents: Some of those prices are a little high, you should shop around. I’ve had good luck with this guy, just for example http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com
And you’re gonna need new head bolts, yours are the “torque-to-yield” design that are good for one use. As in, once you remove them, toss them in the trash. Figure 35-40 bucks for a set.
I believe your money would be better spent on a good used engine. I’d imagine that there are hundreds of them in wrecking yards all around the country.
Good luck!
The prices on those parts may not be out of line. I rebuilt a Mitsubishi 4 banger a while back and parts prices on dinky 4 bangers were obscene in comparison to many V-8s.
Even with shopping around pistons were running a 100 a pop, 140 for a head gasket set only (no full set available so all other gaskets/seals were individual), 50 bucks for a set of rod bearings, 75 for mains, etc.
Kind of makes you appreciate a small block Chevy; cheapest engine on earth to maintain and build.
I bet it will run for more than a year. I did a job like that on a CVCC engine and ran that rust bucket for 13,000 miles before letting it go. If one rod bearing looks like it is made of thicker stuff, you might have an undersized journal. They don’t undersize the rods; anything wrong with them and they trash em. If a rod won’t touch the piston skirt, the piston should be replaced. If a ten ton press can’t remove the piston pin, throw the assembly out. A sixty ton press will remove it but will destroy the rod. RRRippp. You can usually get away with reusing intake valves but the exhaust valves are usually shot. Ten seconds of honing should do it per cylinder. I “rebuilt” a 350 chevy for about $300 in parts and I had to replace three pistons and the rod I mentioned.
I just wanted to add to stronzo’s comment. REPLACE THE HEAD BOLTS. These are TTY (torque-to-yield), and are NOT re-useable. Failure to replace them will lead to cylinder head damage. With all the work going on, don’t cheap out here.
I guess since you’re determined to do this . . . all I can say is good luck and post back if you run into problems. As you can see from the responses, there is a lot of knowledge available from these folks . . . and it appears that most of the posters are speaking from experience . . . some bad experiences . . . when they tried to do a job “on the cheap” or “the short cut way”. I know that I have tried both, sometimes it worked, others it didn’t work out so well. But again . . . GOOD LUCK, keep things clean, and post back if you get stuck. Rocketman
This is the kind of thing that really needs apprenticeship. You need to watch an experienced person do this before you try it by yourself.
I watched a friend who’s a certified Honda mechanic do an engine rebuild in a dealership service bay, then a few years later did one myself in a home garage. Here’s a few recollections:
Both of these were “pre-emptive” rebuilds. Neither engine had any serious problem.
The first was a '75 Civic CVCC with 95K miles. It didn’t consume much oil but it seeped down the valve guides and it would smoke when you first start it up. The engine outlasted the body of that car
When my '81 Accord was due for a timing belt at 120k mi I decided to freshen it up. The engine went another 85k before a careless teenager ran into it.
In both cases, friend and my own, the head went to a machine shop for valve work. No valves needed replacing. The '75 got new valve guides. Both (aluminum) heads were milled slightly to assure flatness.
Neither car had wear ridges on the bores. The '81 had the original honing pattern visible all over the bore. All they needed was honing and rings. It’s important to clean the bores thoroughly after honing with lots of hot soapy water.
I had a hard time getting past the $8 micrometer…
I based my reply on a quick comparison of the OP’s list vs. Roller’s (Parts Dinosaur). He’s quite a bit lower on most of her items, even with shipping.
"Make sure that RTV does not in any way have a route into the oil system,take this advice as true"
Thank you - good advice. As far as I know it’s for the small areas by the gears of the camshafts. It’s in the book.
The Copper Coat - I’ve never heard of it and was going to look into it when I get back to the auto store. That’s why I asked.
Valve grinding compound is to seat the new valves in the first place - but maybe the old ones are still in spec - we’ll see when I get there. Thank you pleasedodgevan for the honing time-limit. That’s helpful. I promise I’m going to be careful with that part. Can’t put it back if you take off too much!
I will replace the head bolts and thoroughly clean the cylinders and all parts. Even brought in my Living Air purifier to keep the dust out of the air. It emits negative ions and makes particles heavy so they fall to the floor and don’t fly around.
I was thinking - the gas in my oil is probably doing a heck of a cleaning job while it’s in there!! And yes, before you all jump on me, I know it can be doing damage as well. Just a humorous thought.
Oh, the $8 micrometer is actually a set of 5 instruments and is from Harbor Freight Tools. Check it out on the web. Great place for cheap tools when you need it. Got a valve spring compressor for $6. Bought my vacuum guage tester for $12. My pry bar cost $1.19. No, I don’t get ALL my tools there. My hand tools are Craftsman or better.
Thorough7:
Can you explain why you’re not responding to any of the advice suggesting the better approach would be to drop in a used engine rather than the path you’re pursuing?
Your replies may be articulate, but they don’t convey a sense that you’re adequately prepared to tackle this job successfully.
OP, you are hanging yourself on this deal and I still see no way in the world you can do this job yourself for anywhere near 300 bucks.
You say you’ll replace the head bolts. Priced those?
You say you’re going to use lapping compound to lap the new valves in. Priced new valves?
Assuming someone gave you a new set of valves for free then what about the valve seats? XXXX will freeze over before new valves lap (properly) into recessed or burned seats.
I have all of the tools one could ever need and I couldn’t even do what you’re wanting to do for 300 bucks.
Anyhoo, my advice was go help you avoid flushing 300 dollars down the toilet and apparently you’re determined to flush it even if it takes a bathroom plunger to do it.
My last words on the subject and I can’t wish you the best on this; no one is blessed with that much luck.
Yes, Joe, if youread all o f this you’ll know I don’t have $700 to get a new engine, I ONLY HAVE ABOUT $300.
OK4450 - You have made it ABUNDANTLY clear that you are very negative about this, even though you still offer good advise. Please drop the negativity and know that I have an IQ. I don’t need that right now. The helpful suggestions are great from everyone and the advise has been heeded.
Thank you.