True. But I think it’s better to try talk with him anyway. I have no data to back me, but I think most people can tell a competent person having difficulty putting things in laypeople’s terms from a BS artist. Although, having read so many of these posts, I admit that I may be wrong.
Of course, being a BS artist myself I might not be the best judge of that… {
@The same mountainbike;“Yes, by all means, ask questions of the shop. Think of the shop as being a subcontractor. You should ask questions, you should open the line of communication. Understand that not all great mechanics are great communicators, and accept that, but by all means talk to him. If more people asked more questions there’d be far fewer problems… and a lot more crooks would be out of business”.
I try to stress this with my clients too.
Asking questions educates the auto owner to some of the common terms and discriptions that the mechanic uses to diagnose your problem.
And people should not feel dumb if the mechanic corrects them so that they can communicate better, when the next problem occurs.
If more people knew the just a little terminology better, we wouldn’t be reading
" My car will turn over, but it won’t crank…"
Yosemite
“But there is something else to consider . . . if there is a great and honest mechanic who is not a great communicator, the customer might interpret that to mean he is incompetent and/or shady.
And the business would suffer.”
I once worked with a guy like that. We eventually all agreed–the other guy included–that he would not answer the phone or talk to anyone that walked in, he would simply direct the customer to another employee.
This guy was a top-of-his-game, fix anything kind of mechanic. Well trained and well tooled, but if he had to talk to a customers he would starve. I’d overhear his end of a phone conversation: “Hi, this is Bob at the garage. You need a module. $450 to get your car running …because it’s bad…because that’s how much it costs…do you want your car fixed or not?..it will be ready when it’s ready…”
Some people can communicate, some can’t.
LOL, my own kids don’t think I’m a good communicator.
If someone asks “how does and engine work” they expect to hear “the gasoline explodes and pushes the piston down which turns a crank”. I start with “well, gasoline is a hydrocarbon molecule, and air contains about 22% oxygen…”. They expect me to start with the mechanics, and I start with the physics. My kids lose interest by the time I finish the first sentence.
I agree that some people are just not comfortable talking to people.
We have another horseshoer in the area that is very good at his craft. We may have differing opinions about how to fix a problem, but he knows his stuff.
I have had many people say that they are uncomfortable around him. He introduces himself and does the work, but until he’s done with the job he is almost silent.
I try to explain that he is just not a talker.
I on the other hand am just the opposite and my clients are used to having a gab fest while I’d in their barn. I’ll talk to clients about anything…except religion or politics and even those are not off the table if I know the person well enough.
“Now let me tell you about my proctology exam”…no, not that far, but close.
I think it is an important part of any profession…to be a communicator…so that others can be confident that they are working with someone that is knowledgable and learn.
But you cannot force a shy person…or an uncomfortable one to communicate.
Yosemite
Some people end up in specific professions specifically because they’re uncomfortable trying to communicate with others. Others enter their professions because their only skill is talking (any politicians come to mind?). Some are a mixture.
Me, I probably followed a technical path because I don’t communicate well. I’m not “fast on my feet” at all. I need to think through things. Meetings would sometimes move too fast for me, especially if the subject was something I hadn’t researched. I guess that’s why I never entered politics. I’m not a good “live” debater, because I need time to think.
“My kids lose interest by the time I finish the first sentence.”
My brother is like that.
As his wife says, if somebody asks him what time it is, he will explain how to build a clock.
;-))
What needs to be done to determine if the Engine head needs replacement? How much of work is it and how many hours of work is required to make that determination?
I definitely vote for an independent shop but try to get an answer. Also, if you go with a reman, many consider Jasper engines to be the best. You can also get reman engines from most parts stores for less money although I hear mixed reviews about some of those engines. At least they do seem to stand behind the guarantee because it is sometimes needed.
As for communication, definitely find out what is going on. Now I work on computers and get several calls a week about “My computer won’t turn on. How much will this cost to fix?” That is all the information they give you but they expect an exact estimate. I tell them computers are complex systems like cars. If you call an auto mechanic and ask how much it will cost to fix a car that won’t start, they are going to give you an estimate ranging from something simple like a battery, starter, or alternator all the way up to the price of a new engine. I have made people mad by misdiagnosing problems over the phone so will no longer give estimates or give them an answer of $35 to $1000 as the estimate if they really press me. $35 is my minimum charge. Either way, communication is important on both sides. Don’t expect all the answers if you don’t ask the correct questions. In my case, many of these people are just bid shoppers looking for the cheapest price. These are generally not good customers and simply waste time so I don’t put forth a lot of effort in bringing them in.
VDC, that’s exactly the way my kids describe me.
^
Well, I can think of many ways of being described that are far less flattering, so I don’t think that you should be upset by that description.
My brother is a nice, highly intelligent person, and I believe that he sometimes thinks that others won’t understand what he is saying unless he launches into an extremely detailed explanation. My philosophy–developed after many years as an educator–is that the simplest explanation that gets the job done is the best one, but that is just my approach.
Nobody is right, and nobody is wrong.
These are just different theories about how to communicate and how to answer questions…
VDC, your brother and I would get along famously. My kids would get a laugh out of it.
I’ve always believed that the deeper someone understands the answer is the better off he/she’ll be. I’ve learned over the years that most people don’t want to know how things work, they only want a simple answer, but it’s unnatural for me to offer that.
I wholeheartedly agree that there’s no right or wrong. I can explain something highly technical to six kids, and two will follow along politely, two will fall asleep, and two will become highly attentive and engrossed. Sometimes it felt like I was communicating with a telephone and they were listening with a telegraph.
Ain’t life grand?
There’s several tests a shop might do to determine if the head needs to be replaced. The first though is to determine if the head is actually damaged and needs to be removed to further assess the situation. A wet/dry compression test, a cylinder leak down test, testing for coolant in the oil, oil in the coolant, and a chemical test for exhaust gasses in the coolant would all be potential tests a shop would use. It’s hard to say which of these need to be done, and in which order. It might be the case for example that the wet/dry compression test result would make the other tests redundant.
As many of you advised, talked to the Lexus dealer mechanic who worked on it today. He has hot taken apart the engine. He said the compression test is low that it may be the piston rings are damaged. So, asked him why the person who is the middle man said only engine head. Then both said they will be able to get all the damages only when they start on it. So, towed the car to a checkbook recommended mechanic this afternoon. He said at 5:30pm that he could not start the engine yet. He has not done the compression test yet. He will resume and let me know tomorrow.
@SKish
It sounds like the Lexus mechanic hasn’t really done all of the tests yet
A compression test is good, but that’s not the only thing he should be doing
A wet compression test would be next, followed by a cylinder leak down test on all cylinders, or at the very least the ones that have low compression. The cylinder leakdown test alone can yield many answers
For your sake, I hope the mechanic at the second shop is very thorough
Independent mechanic also confirms that the engine is in bad shape. When he removed the spakplugs, there was coolant and leak down test also proved engine bad. He says this engine is not worth rebuilding. He is trying to locate an old engine. But says he cant trust some of the other parts like radiator and hoses etc and will replace all of them - so looking like $7000, right around where Lexus mechanic quoted. Should I take it back to Lexus mechanic or go with the other guy (used engine may fail again, not sure about the Lexus’ rebuild alternative either now, someone posted here earlier that I could be left with oil eating engine etc. ). Any other suggestions?
The bit about being left with an oil eating engine was stated by me and it’s something I’ve seen quite a bit of.
Coolant in a cylinder, or cylinders in the plural, can wash the piston rings and cylinder walls out so that is one of several reasons why one could be left with an oil burner.
Seven grand seems a bit much for a used engine that hasn’t even been located yet so I’ll have to think a bit more on this one.
The thought of going that much on a 100k+ miles used engine would definitely make me cringe.
The independent mechanic sounds like he was much more thorough in his diagnosis, versus the Lexus mechanic
It’s not a bad idea to replace the radiator and hoses when replacing an engine
Sounds like this guy is being careful
When you locate an engine, here’s a few other things I’d replace while you’re at it
Accessory drive belt
Water pump
Thermostat
radiator cap
spark plugs . . . use only the plugs listed in the owner’s manual
oil and filter change
If the mechanic is especially brave, he might want to consider replacing the front and rear crank seals before installing the engine. After all, that stuff is easy to do when the engine is out of the vehicle. I’d hate for you to start up the “new” engine, only to discover a rear main seal leak.
If there’s any doubt about the valve cover gaskets or oil pan gaskets, it’s easier to do them with the engine out of the vehicle.
I recommend genuine Toyota super long life coolant, from the dealer. Don’t use a generic
Have the mechanic take a good look at your flex plate, before transferring it to the “new” engine. On some vehicles, they tend to crack. I don’t believe Toyota is known for this problem, but it it’ll only take a few seconds to look it over.
Same goes for the motor mounts. If they are spongy, leaking fluid, or crumbling, replace them while the engine’s out of the vehicle
Good luck!
You shouldn’t try to repair the old engine. The initial estimate is before the engine is disassembled for inspection. It is impossible to give an acurate estimate without a labor fee agreement for disassembling the engine, in this case about 8 hours. After it is inspected they may revise the estimate.
What is the break down of the estimate, engine, parts, labor? Did you get a quote for a used engine from the dealer?
This second mechanic is taking an much bigger interest in solving your problem, & seems to be doing the correct things in the right order. At this point, he seems like the better choice. That said, the best way to find a mechanic is by a personal recommendation from someone that you know, informing the shop who it was that recommended you. You’ll have to decide for yourself if replacing the engine is the best choice for your needs, or just junking the car and buying a new one. Best of luck.