“Wine; A constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy.” Ben Franklin.
Ben Franklin didn’t drive around in 3,000 pound of steel at 45mph.
But after several millennia of enjoying the result of spoiling various fruits and grains the invention of the automobile won’t remove wine beer or distilled drinks from culture.
Nor should it. The temperance movement is absurd, and prohibition was a failure for a reason. Millions of adults manage to enjoy adult beverages without being harmed or doing harm. There is no reason to punish everyone who enjoys a drink because some people get drunk and then drive. We should be punishing those people, and not making normal drinkers out to be foolhardy.
Then there is the segment that does both. It’s ok to drink alcohol. It’s ok to admit you have had more than is advisable to drive, and while drunk, most people that have a high blood alcohol level are able to think quite well. Just because someone has a high BAC doesn’t mean they can’t function, they just shouldn’t drive.
WOW. I don’t even know how to respond to that.
He’s not wrong. The stereotype that drunks are too drunk to know they’re drunk is almost universally, in my experience, untrue. They all know they’re drunk. At least half of them stumble around loudly slurring “I’M SO DRUNK RIGHT NOW.”
They know they’re drunk - they just don’t care when it comes to doing what they want to do, and if what they want to do is driving, that’s where problems happen.
Maybe you think drunkenness is binary. It is not. It goes from the legal definition by blood alcohol content all the way to passed out. People with a barely illegal BAC are still fully functional, but sufficiently impaired that they should not drive. Maybe you don’t drink and don’t have a personal reference point.
Spoken like a true drinker.
Sorry TSM but that’s a little insulting. I have one glass of wine a month at a gathering but I know I can feel it. But one glass of wine does not put me anywhere near being legally impaired. Even though, I wait at least an hour before I drive the couple of miles home. I don’t consider myself a drinker and I don’t consider myself an abolitionist. JT was simply stating a scientific fact that there is a continuum of impairment and not even mentioning that everyone has different tolerances. When I was in Italy, I had wine all the time with meals and developed a tolerance for it. Now like I said, I can feel one glass.
1 Like
We’re a pretty long way past the days of viewing those who consume the “Demon Liquor” as somehow morally lessened.
It is entirely possible to drink, even daily, without being an alcoholic, or dangerous, or a societal blight.
I’ve been drunk once, on a cruise ship after a “hang out with the chef” dinner that included 5 glasses of wine and a couple of cocktails, and I wouldn’t care to repeat the experience (of being drunk that is - the meal was fantastic). And I can tell you right now that despite the fact that I was in no condition to operate any vehicle, I also knew full well that I was in no condition to operate one, and remarked to my wife on our way back to our room that I definitely wouldn’t drive like that.
The fight here is against drunk driving, not drinking. There is nothing wrong with drinking. There is something wrong with drunk driving.
We should be targeting the actual problem, not one single factor that does not always or even most of the time cause people to exhibit the problem.
1 Like
I also feel one glass of wine and one beer, as long as I take my time drinking them. I’m sure my BAC is below the legal limit, yet I still feel it. The legal BAC is supposed to be met if the average male has more than 2 beers in an hour. I drink beer with about twice the alcohol content of Bud, but I also take between one and two hours to drink it. I’m not drunk, but I am feeling good. I’m a true drinker!
Well I’d better edit. In addition to one glass of wine, it is getting warm out and when Bobby and I (Bobby Dylan) detail my cars in the hot garage, or work outside in the heat, I do enjoy a Mikes Hard Lemonade once in a while. I think it is maybe 1.5% or something. When I ran out a couple years ago, that’s when I found out liquor stores weren’t open on Sunday. I thought how stupid that is that it’s a law you can’t be open on Sundays for someone like me that visits once a year or so. I don’t feel a thing drinking that stuff but it does hit the spot in the heat.
Agreed, I work in an emergency department, and we see pretty much everything. There are people that come in with a blood alcohol level over 300 (so approximately a 0.3 on a breathalyzer) that can carry on a conversation, walk without difficulty. They definitely shouldn’t be driving of course, but they’re definitely not completely wasted. Conversely, we can have someone come in with an alcohol level that’s half of the 300 and be a classic “sloppy drunk”. The BAC is just a number, nothing more.
Sorry Bing, but I’m not buying it. Buzzed driving is drunk driving. And people bordering on the fringe of the limit are not “fully functional”. But the part that got to me was the comment that I have to be a drinker to have a reference point. I’ve been around a long time, drank plenty in the military, have had friends with drinking problems, and had to scrape my six year old son off the pavement years ago in front of my house because some jerkoff thought he was “fully functional”. Don’t tell me I don’t have a point of reference. Anybody past middle age would have to have lived his/her life in a convent to not have a point of reference.
Bing, you can believe in what Jt said if you’d like. I don’t. It’s justifying drinking to the verge of being drunk.
1 Like
Any impairment is enough to make a difference in the closest cases. No matter how carefully you may drive, people dart out of alleys, turn abruptly without signaling, go the wrong way, etc. Even if it isn’t your fault it’s better if you can get out of the way.
Luckily we have legal limits for blood alcohol content when driving and while it can be debated zero tolerance isn’t the law in any state I don’t believe. Of course when a loved one is the victim of a drunk driver it’s understandable that the law would appear inadequate to someone. I don’t have the answer and obviously no one else has it either so on we go beating another horse to death.
And after drinking a long neck in a Texas bar I tested my BAC on a machine at the door and it was less than.03 but I wasn’t driving so it didn’t matter. It did confirm my SWAG as to how much it took for me to become legally drunk, presuming that the device actually was accurate.
I know the subject here is driving, but I will not accept any argument that someone bordering on the legal limit is “fully functional”.
Would you want an employee bordering on the legal limit to negotiate a contract for you? Align your car? Operate a forklift? Calculate the center of the mass on a critical support structure? Cook your dinner in a restaurant? Paint your house? Perform surgery on your child?
The argument that a lot of people on the legal limit can be fully functional is bunk, merely an excuse to keep drinking. That’s why so many drinkers have so much trouble holding responsible jobs.
For the record, I’m not an abolitionist. A drink of wine with dinner is fine for most adults. That’s a long way from being on the cusp of the legal limit.
And the argument that unless I drink I “don’t have a personal reference point” is insulting and more bunk.
I had a bartender license, we went through training, effects of alcohol and limits based mostly on body weight. A 98 lb person I knew got a dui after 2 glasses of wine, for me it was 2 beers the first hour, than one beer every hour afterwords to stay legal. Now if people knew these stats as a base point it would be great. I call it safe and have a 2 beer limit, then I do not drive. I use uber when going to a friends for cocktails, It is not that hard people to play it safe. Sure some people get away with it all their life, some people are up to 5 o 6 convictions. Public education, traffic enforcement and insurance costs have I believe cut down on the number of owi people on the road, but remember the good old day, 2 very pretty lady friends told me this story. Sue got pulled over, fell out of the door on to the ground due to massive consumption of alcohol. Officer says your friend is going to have to drive, L does a faceplant getting out of the passenger side, gets up and assumes the driver seat, and they toodle on home. one you are good to go with a designated driver to take over,
The good old days, if you did not hurt anything no harm no foul
Whether mentally or emotionally impaired or intoxicated by alcohol or drugs everyone should be held responsible for their actions and their performance whether at work, behind the wheel or personally. I fired a man when I smelled pot in the shop when returning from a road test. It’s against the law here but more important I have zero tolerance for employees and so out he went as fast as he could load his tools. I may have given him or anyone else a second chance it I had smelled booze on their breath but they would have gone home the rest of the day I smelled it. But again I might have fired someone on the spot for the first offense. And I often kept beer in the break room refrigerator for myself and after the shop doors were down sometimes I enjoyed a beer and some BS time with the guys before heading home and I often nursed a beer while I filled out my monthly taxes and luckily never was caught in an error on that. alcohol isn’t a demon. Neither are people who are unable to manage drinking it. Alcohol is with us and it will remain with us into infinity and we must learn to deal with it as best we can. Personally I have set my limits regarding drinking and after many decades I feel content that I have not caused any loss or harm to anyone and intend to keep that record intact.