I agree with Kannear that alcohol evaporates (almost immediately), so the salmon will never taste it. The rest of the solution will freeze when it’s -30F or -50F, etc. Regardless of whether the engine and car are “heated up or not”. Get out of the car and use a rag to wipe off you windshield.
i am slow to post, but alcohol evaporates. Glad to see others agreed.
I was out in my car and just got back to respond. I can’t believe that you guys didn’t jump on the fact that alcohol volatilizes, evaporates, at relatively low temperatures. Unless you are pouring it down the drain, I don’t think it will get into the water supply and affect the salmon. The evaporation is why the smear left on your windshield by the wipers disappears as well. It carries off the remaining water as it evaporates.
In Better Basics for the Home, Annie Berthold-Bond recommends using plain water for windshield wiper fluid, and adding glycerin (a by-product of soap manufacture) or isopropyl alcohol to keep it from freezing, if necessary. She offers these proportions:
Water Glycerin Alcohol Will not freeze down to…
90% 10% — 28 degrees F
42% 58% — -10 degrees F
95% — 5% 25 degrees F
65% — 35% -16 degrees F
60% 20% 20% -23 degrees F
I think I will stick to rainbow trout until we can settle this as to whether or not the windshield washer fluid is affecting salmon.
when we were kids we used to give my dad a bottle of aqua velva for Christmas and fathers and and his birthday. He had enough aftershave to last 100 yrs! he used to mix the Aqua Velva with windex and water and put that in his windshield washer container. Claimed he had the cleanest and best smelling windsheild around!!! We lived in New England and it never froze during the winter!
I agree- ethanol- denatured alcohol- which is ethanol with an additive to prevent human consumption- is cheap and likely safer for the environment. Don’t spend money on spirit for consumption. No need to pay for the federal and state taxes.
Not addressed- taking the fluid reservoir into the home does not address the lines and pump for the fluid- which will freeze if not protected. many cars in Canada and Alaska have crankcase electric heaters to plugin and keep the engine from freezing in below zero temps- one needs a heater to keep the engine bay and fluid lines for the washer warm enough to not freeze- using ethanol for the fluid. Freezing temps depend on the concentration of ethanol- I do not have that at hand.
This is a simple issue. oeb11
Hey guys, how about contacting the main relay station up in the Arctic Circle and see what THEY use to clean windows and windshields? I imagine it would work in Juneau, Alaska too.
(chemist w/18 yrs exp in environmental mgt.)
Alaskans can’t rely on evaporation in winter to keep methanol out of waterways - the lower the ambient temperature, the lower the vapor pressure of the methanol, and the lower the evaporation rate. The metabolites of ethanol are less toxic, for sure, so ethanol may be a good substitute, but it would “dry” more slowly still, due in part to the higher molecular weight.
However, I suspect the methanol that gets to waterways and is available to larger-order vertebrates, after evaporation and microbial digestion, has less adverse impact than the unburned fuel and motor oil.
If saving the fish from the effects of windshield washing fluid is important, don’t drive.
Whatever you use, make sure it won’t damage the car’s paint.
A couple years ago I purchased a small tractor. It was light in the rear so I went to the tire shop and asked them to fill the rear tires with the traditional calcium chloride. The tire guy asked me if I would like to have the eco friendly beet juice instead? I said yes, of course. Seems someone recently (since I’ve been on the farm) invented eco-juice to fill tractor tires since it’s less corrosive and wouldn’t freeze. Suggest using that in the windshield washer.
dmm6012
If you spray a warm liquid on a windshield when the glass is very cold, not only might the window go instantly opaque (from frost), but it might also crack.
It can get down to -30 F here in upstate, NY. It must get a lot colder in parts of Alaska!
I’m going with propylene glycol. Its used to de-ice airplanes so it should be ok for cars. Where can one get this stuff anyway?
JimC
Super Duper Dirty Window Cleaner
1/4 teaspoon washing soda
1/2 cup hot water
1/4 liquid soap or detergent
2 cups club soda
- Dissolve the washing soda in the hot water
- Pour into spray bottle
- Add the liquid soap & the club soda
- Shake well
- Spray & clean with squeegee
makes 2 1/2 cups
shelf life: indefinite
storage: leave in spray bottle
- washing soda is an excellent solvent that cuts grease, removes petroleum oil and more.
- it is more strongly alkaline than baking soda.
- releases no harmful fumes
- far safer than commercial solvents (but you should wear gloves because it is caustic)
- can be found in the laundry supply section of your supermarket
** this and the following homemade simple solutions for less toxic living can be found in: Better Basics For The Home by Annie Berthold- Bond.
It is my personal green bible.
All Purpose Window Cleaner
1/4 cup white distilled vinegar
1/2 teaspoon liquid soap or detergent
2 cups water
- combine ingredients in spray bottle
- shake to blend
- remove with squeegee, paper towel or newspaper
makes 2 1/4 cups
shelf life: indefinite
storage: leave in spray bottle
Vinegar Straight Up
(this preparation will work AFTER you’ve cleaned off the residue of any commercial products with the all-purpose cleaner above)
1/4 cup white distilled vinegar
2 cups water
- combine ingredients in spray bottle & shake to blend
- spray on then remove with squeegee, paper towel or newspaper
makes 2 1/2 cups
shelf life: indefinite
storage: leave in spray bottle
I’ve used a vinegar and water mixture. It cuts the grime on the windshield very well. The vinegar lowers the freezing point somewhat, but not a lot. However, my experience is that when the weather is well below freezing I really don’t need the washers. It is when it is near or above freezing that we deal with the dirty spray off the roads. I say “we” since I live right up the channel in Haines AK.
I agree on the vodka idea - I was sure that would occur to Tommy while they were talking. I am a teetotaller myself, but it doesn’t freeze and shouldn’t be enough to intoxicate the fish!
I think we are all using a fundamentally flawed thesis: that methanol from windshield wiper fluid is dangerous to fish in rivers. This is simply not true. According to the US EPA chemical summary of methanol (http://www.epa.gov/chemfact/s_methan.txt), it is toxic to fish at concentrations approaching 2% in the river. You are never going to get anything like that concentration of methanol in rivers from windshield washer fluid, so you may as well keep using it.
This Tree-Hugger, Save The Planet Stuff Gets To A Point Of Being A Bit Much, But I’ve Got It On Good Authority That Moose Urine Is A Naturally Good Cleaner. It Won’t Hurt The Rivers, As That’s Where A Moose Pees. The Big Problem Is Getting Meese To Cooperate While Collecting It !
CSA
My Mom swore by vinegar and water for cleaning windows, she refused to use anything else. She also used vinegar for a host of other cleaning chores. Drank it daily for arthritis.
I just recently tried it to clean my car windows, which I hate to do because it’s such a pain. I was shocked at how well vinegar and water worked, sure beat any store bought window cleaner I ever tried. I’m sold!
Now if you can just keep it from freezing I think you would have the automotive find of the century. Old Fashioned, Eco friendly, green windshield washer fluid. Just like Grandma used to make!
Maybe if you use fast moving river water, that stuff never freezes.
And I read that treating the outside of your windshield with straight vinegar will help keep it from frosting up.
And I thought it was funny with all of today s super Tech know how, and this new so called green movement. They don’t know half as much as Grandma did back in the days when we really were green.
Jackpinesavage
“Vodka doesn’t freeze but I don’t know what kind the salmon would prefer.”
Salmon already contain alcohol, and of course vodka freezes.