Why they are in high demand might have nothing to do with the fact that they are flex fuel vehicles, but nobody has proven that one way or the other
Why are there Flex Fuel vehicles here in NH. We don’t have any Flex fuel stations. And there are a lot of them. Especially in pickups and SUV’s. Why would anyone buy a Flex Fuel vehicle if they can’t buy Flex Fuel? That doesn’t make sense.
I personally suspect there are a lot of flex fuel areas in your area because that's what showed up when the auto transporter brought the new vehicles to the dealers. Perhaps the dealer didn't specifically request them, but they got them anyways.If I was in the market for a new car, and all the cars on every lot were flex fuel, I suppose I would buy one. But when it came time to fill the tank, I would NOT fill with E85.
Nobody said you had to actually use your flex fuel vehicle like one. You could just pretend it’s a “regular” vehicle.
That’s certainly a plausible explanation of what I’ve been saying all along.
I just did a google search. There are ZERO stations in NH selling Flex Fuel.
Here’s a Ford dealer in Hillsborough NH that has 15 Flex Fuel F-150 pickups for sale.
For the life of me I can’t think of a single reason to buy one.
I’d bet a LOT OF MONEY that people who buy them are NOT buying them because they have Flex Fuel ability. But because it’s a F-150 pickup and meets their needs. Those trucks won’t see one drop of Flex Fuel it’s whole life.
@Whitey
We all know the Ford Fusion is a popular vehicle. It certainly is in my area.
I suspect it’s popular because people like it, flex fuel or not
Many Ford Rangers and Tauruses were also flex fuel
So what?
I doubt most of them have ever run on E85
Whitey, I still believe you were suggesting a cause and effect relationship between flex fuel compatibility and people’s purchasing decisions. I offer your posts below (four paragraphs) as my evidence.
"@db4690: “The only people that want flex fuel vehicles are people directly affiliated with the ethanol industry”
Then there must be a huge ethanol production facility in my area that I don’t know about, because I see dozens of flex fuel vehicles on the road every day. I find it hard to believe these people are buying vehicles they don’t want. Why would they do that?
… and I have no affiliation with the ethanol industry whatsoever, but because I keep vehicles for a long time, and because I think the government will try to force E15 upon us again, I would seriously consider making my next vehicle a flex fuel vehicle. It probably won’t be a deciding factor in my next vehicle, but if it could tip the scales between two comparable vehicles.
There are lots of people who live in corn country who don’t directly grow or process corn, but they support the ethanol industry because they believe it is good for their local economies. My parents grew up in corn country, and I still have lots of family there. You don’t have to be directly affiliated with the ethanol industry to believe supporting big corn can benefit you indirectly"
@db4690: “We all know the Ford Fusion is a popular vehicle. It certainly is in my area. I suspect it’s popular because people like it, flex fuel or not.”
…and the fact that is a “suspicion” and not a “fact” is all I’ve been saying all along. I’m glad to see we agree continue to agree.
@mountainbike: “I still believe you were suggesting a cause and effect relationship between flex fuel compatibility and people’s purchasing decisions.”
…so even after I say that’s not what I’m saying, you still insist that’s what I’m saying? Are you being deliberately obtuse? Please find another hobby and stop trolling me.
I didn’t say what you’re claiming I said, even in the text of mine you’re reposing. I never said there was a cause-and-effect relationship. I only mentioned the apparent and obvious correlation. This whole cause-and-effect thing is something you’re making up. Please stop attempting to attribute words to me that aren’t mine.
@Whitey
Here’s a partial quote of what you posted . . .
the Ford Fusion, which happens to be a flex fuel vehicle, is popular. It might be popular because it is a flex fuel vehicle
Please!
Do you really believe this?
The Accord and Camry are good sellers
If, starting tomorrow, all the new Accords and Camrys were flex fuel, they’d still be good sellers
Would that be BECAUSE they are flex fuel?
C’mon, man!
I didn’t think ‘flex fuel’ was an option. Cars and trucks either come with it, or don’t, right? All the Tahoes, say, were flex fuel to maximize GM’s CAFE credits, not to satisfy any market demand.
Whitey, that is what I believe you were inferring. Even if you say it is not.
Sorry, but that’s the way it is.
@texases Initially GM wanted a complete credit for flex fuels, in other words, just dropped from the CAFE calculations. That did not wash with the EPA and they settled on a partial credit, which in my opinion still did not make sense since the fuels were not readily available.
In Brazil it would make sense, since pure ethanol (from sugar cane) is available nearly everywhere. Last time there our driver pulled into a fuel “complex” where there were 3 grades of gasoline, diesel, propane, and “alcohol”. They were also installing pumps for CNG, compressed natural gas.
Most ethanol cars there are dedicated to that fuel, many are Volkswagens
@db4690,
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/might?s=t
as in the past tense of
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/may?s=t
@db4690 and mountainbike, you guys sure go a long way to find disagreement where there is none. Are you sure you’re not teenage girls masquerading as men?
@mountainbike, I would appreciate it if you would take me at face value. I’ve given you no reason to attack my integrity, yet you repeatedly continue to do so. Did I pee on your Wheaties or was it someone else?
I am very careful with the language I choose, which is why I only mentioned a correlation, and not a cause-and-effect relationship. If you were as diligent a reader as I am a writer, you would understand my meaning.
texases Long Lost Magliozzi Brother
March 24
“It’s even worse than that - E85 drops fuel mileage by about 30%.”
Correct. E10 drops mileage about 4-5%. I have long suspected my State mandated E10 due to the fact that more fuel used generates more tax revenue.
Whitey, you wrote what you wrote and I interpreted what I interpreted. You say you didn’t infer what I believe you inferred, a correlation. It’s that simple. No sense “beating a dead horse”.
You’re taking this way too personally. We simply disagree on the flex fuel issue.
“the only people who want flex fuel vehicles are people directly affiliated with the ethanol industry”
You would be surprised how long flex fuel vehicles have been around and how many average consumers would love a realistic approach. The concept of EVERY car, and not just a few, being flex fueled is sound. But, it should coincide with the development of other alcohol based fuels as well as gas and other choices that are not in control of the petro industry. The flex fuel approach now is a half asteroid approach to a sound idea. If non petro industries were allowed to develope competing fuels that all cars could use, there would be a free market for energy purchase and gasoline prices would be more competitive. There would also be no need for govt. subsidies if all cars made were flex fuel.
Now, by keeping ethanol tied to gasoline for what ever sound or perceived to be sound reason, it just doesn’t work. It’s like slow torture for the consumer, waiting for a shoe to fall making his cars obsolete and his fuel choices more, not less limiting while ruining every other motor we all depend upon. Bet your butt, the petro industry is a controlling influence in metering out this crap. It can be done and it can be done painlessly.
Doing it the right way will just provide too much competition for energy corps which their lobbyist aren’t willing to accept while they continue their efforts to buy up and control the sun light.
Interesting idea. I would definitely be in favor of ethanol competing openly as an alternative fuel without government intervention. Discontinue the subsidies to both industries, and let the marketplace decide. Let the best fuel win.
And let’s put all the lobbyists on an island by themselves with no outside communication where they can do no more harm.
There is such a thing as “good” lobbiest though. They’re the ones who work for what you or I really want. “Lobbyist” has unfortunately developed a bad connotation because or their rampant misuse. A level playing field for all lobbiest to work from would be best. Unfortunately, to get that legislation past, would require a lot of lobbying. ;=()
Btw. This was the original intent for flex fuel vehicles running on a variety of fuels from what I remember. Unfortunately, like many good ideas, it’s polluted by greed and self interest.
A level playing field is impossible… it defies the laws of physics… money and politicians are involved. Loved the paradox, by the way. {
If you want lobbyists, you have to take all the baggage that comes along with them:
Corruption
Money being misspent
Parties
Booze
Drugs
Prostitution
"objective" politicians . . . ha ha ha
etc.
Can I get only the parties and the prostitution???
Sorry. It’s Friday. Couldn’t resist.
You will find that all vehicles in a particular line with a particular powertrain will either be flex-fuel or not.
Now, for the love of all that is holy, will the mods PLEASE close this mess of a thread???