…the way it would try to sneak off the road if you were the least bit distracted.
Please don’t tell me you judge a car by how it handles when you fail to pay attention to your driving. I think all cars should steer themselves off the road when the driver is distracted. It would make the roads safer for the rest of us.
NEVER. This line of thinking is the corperate equivelant of racial bigotry, profiling, and social class snobery.
Ken, I hope you are being sarcastic.
If you are serious, you are soooooo wrong. There are some pretty big differences between this and bigotry, the least of which is that one is applied to people and the other is applied to inanimate objects.
As a person, I don’t represent all other people who share my skin color or ethnicity. However, each car manufactured represents the company and its reputation. One black person doesn’t represent all black people and one Asian person doesn’t represent all Asian people. However, when a company puts a car on the market, that car represents the company’s image.
The OP owned a Civic and now drives a Subaru. Both of these cars are pretty pedestrian. If this was a case of social class snobbery being applied to cars, I think the OP would have to compare something like a BMW with his Civic instead of a Subaru.
Whether we are talking about cars or apples, it is okay to judge a group by your experience with a few. It may be short sighted to do so, but on the grand scale of ethics, it doesn’t come anywhere near real bigotry.
Not sure if you can rent an Honda. I however have rented a Toyota Sienna, Hyundai minivan, and Chrysler all in their current forms for at least a week. I thought all were decent in different ways. The best thing to me about Sienna was 8 passenger seating (we had 7 passengers at time) and its absolute comfort. Otherwise they all feel like rolling appliance to me but is that not what a minivan really is?
I never had a poor experience reliability wise with my Honda although not problem free either.
I disagree. All Volvos are created equal = crap. I had a 1994 850 Turbo Station Wagon. It was the most comfortable car I ever sat in - which is all I could do. By the time the car was 6 yrs old, it was at the mechanic on average every 5 weeks. It was so often at the mechanic, I resorted to having it towed. I hate that car. I hate Volvo. I will never ever buy another Volvo or European car ever again. I have a 2002 Toyota Highlander with nearly 100K on it and it runs like I just bought it. I am looking forward to a long and happy life with my Toyota.
It sounds to me like the Sienna will be a good choice if you are forced to buy a minivan. If you buy a Sienna, I think it will grow on you. I occasionally drive my mother’s 2002 Sienna. It has a great sound system and the 240 HP engine makes driving it almost fun.
I hit the wrong key - my Taurus was 1988, not 1998. But your point about different results for different people is still valid.
Dodge for me. In 1991 the Consumer Reports review of the Spirit said it was one of the best of the domestic sedans, but to avoid the troublesome 4-speed overdrive electronic transmission. Everybody I talked to said Dodge had figgered out the transmission problems by the time I bought one late in the year. My transmission died at about 80K miles (with a 70K warranty). Gotta hand it to the dealership, they stepped up and put in a rebuilt one at no charge to me.
However… my parent’s 91 Dynasty had the same transmission, and they had to pay for a rebuilt transmission when it died at 90K miles. And my sister’s 92 Caravan with the same transmission died at about 95K and their dealer didn’t do anything for them.
And my wife’s 2001 Stratus is on its second transmission.
In the not too distant future we’ll be buying a new vehicle. I don’t know what it will be, but I think Dodge vehicles are in the ‘when Hell freezes over’ category.
(I should also note I’ve kept track of my Spirit- now it’s third owner, maybe 250K miles, and I think it’s on transmission number 5 or 6.)
I think you give that woman far too much credit. It probably matched her shoe size, and she probably tried to cram a size 7 into a size 3.
Wow, sorry to hear that. My experience with a '91 Corolla 1600 was nothing but positive. I miss that car. It was fun to drive and never gave me any significant problems.
I understand that, by modern standards, it was probably a piece of crap, especially where rust-proofing is concerned, but I had a great time with my '91 Corolla 1600. The 1600 hemi engine is legendary, to this day, with import tuners. The rest of the car, not so much, but it was pretty good for its time, especially considering the competition.
What was better, for the price, in 1971? Please remember, there was also a US government rebate of $100 for buying a Japanese car at the time, which reduced the price. Yes, the US government sent Treasury checks to each and every American citizen who purchased a Japanese car that year, for $100. Strange, but true.
CTRUGBY . . . she did you a favor, imagine what she’d be like if you ever needed her. Rocketman
Yes, the experience was with the Accord in the 80’s and Odyssey when the “newer” version came out. I priced the Odyssey in the Kansas City area in 2001, and got the “no price negotiation, no color choice” statement from every KC metro area Honda dealer. Checking on the internet indicated I would have to go 300+ miles to a dealer who would deal, and I rejected that approach.
I don’t believe in spending a lot of time in buying vehicles, and the investment in time to get a deal on the Odyssey was too great; hence my MPV choice…and I am happy with that choice.
I understand that today, I probably could get an Odyssey for less than MSRP, but my choices, if I were to buy today, would lean to Toyota Sienna (for reasons of convenience and where I intend to live when I retire). As I stated, Honda will simply lose out, and it started with their attitudes in the late 1980’s.
For that year, the Spirit and Acclaim were the best mid size vehicles you could buy! I recommended them often, but with the 4 cylinder engine and 3 speed automatic transmission. A guy down the street still has one and runs it regularly.
Today, I cannot honestly recommend any Chrysler product, even if the company was going to stay in business.
Mine’s the Volvo. I bought a nice 2000 S80, used in '03. Nice comfy car, but all these electronic gizmos kept breaking… ABS module, moonroof control, Climate control module, etc, all proprietary Volvo parts that was costing me $600-1200 a shot ~ 2x year! I traded it in for my Toy Matrix, and was upside down since they wouldn’t give me anything on trade hardly. But, the reliablity so far has been great.
I Find out that S80’s from '99-'03 are lemons. Too bad you don’t find that out until after you buy.
The reason why Boeing keep the yoke instead of using a side-stick like the Airbus is because Boeing pilots can look else where AND know roughly what the plane is doing based on the position of his/her hand.
Feel is important in a vehicle. It can tell you when your tires are beginning to slip before you visually identify the slip. The ultralight steering fitted in most off road vehicles protect the driver’s thumbs when a wheel hits a rock. It is not conductive to keeping a vehicle on the road.
Sure you can. My brother had a rented Honda Pilot while here on a business trip recently. I spent an afternoon with him and have to say I was very favorably impressed with the comfort of the ride and the quality of interior finish.
Docnick, The 1991 Acclaim was wonderful. I rented one for a Columbus Day weekend and got rear-ended by a semi on an Interstate. We did a 540 degree spin, bounced off an Aerostar and came to rest just short of the front of a Freightliner. We all walked away, my wife, our two daughters, the woman and two little children in the Aerostar, and me. Thank God and the spirit of Walter Chrysler.
This was later followed up by a waiting list/take it or leave it attitude (no price negotiation, no color choice) when the Odyssey came out,
Re-read Jay’s post…He also mentioned the above.
I’ve owned probably 50 cars, in my 45 years (yeah I love cars LOL). I’ve never owned a new one, however. So all my data is predicated on the fact that someone else has owned the vehicle, and may or may not have abused it before I bought it. I’ve owned many brands, but have owned more Chrysler products than anything else. I’ve owned cars from the early 60’s,through 1996.
Having said that, reliablility, I think, depends on models, build dates, and era’s of cars. For example, the early (1983-1986)Chevy S-10 pickups were absolutely terrible. But, by 1990, they had decent engines and the 700R4 transmissions had most of the bugs worked out of them. The ‘remade’ Chryslers from mid to late 90’s did seem to have tranny problems, but, again, by 2000 or so, the bugs seemed to have been worked out of them. (my 1996 Voyager has had at least 1 transmission put in it and has had the 2.4 engine rebuilt; it currently has 216,000 miles. but the ride, comfort, quality sliding doors, lack of rust, and pretty rugged interior keeps me putting money into it) the newer models of anything are suspect. It usually takes several years for a model to have problems worked out. If the car is a success, this will take place. If the car is marginally a success, or headed to extinction, the car companies probably won’t reengineer things failing, or will be less likely to.
That’s my 2 cents worth! great discussion… oh yeah, I’m not brand loyal, but I lean towards VW and Chrysler. …Maybe because I’m most familiar with them.
That being said, the car that went the longest in our family’s lineup of cars was a 1982 Chevette Diesel (which I believe had an Isuzu diesel in it). This car lasted well into the 300,000 miles category. It was bought new by my father, and meticulously maintained. It was still running when sold, but I heard rumors something gave in the engine around 318,000.
It depends upon the severity of the experience and how it is handled by the company. For example, my dad had a Vega that he purchased used. It was an awful car; everyone knows that. However, he had other GM vehicles that were good so he was willing to overlook that one bad car. Had he purchased it new and gotten the runaround from the dealer, then it might have been a different story.
I had a '98 V70XC Cross Country Wagon. Great car when running good, super comfy seats and safe. I got 210,000 miles and it was in good shape when I sold it. From 162K miles when I bought it to 210K miles over 4 years I spent about $2,200 per year keeping it on the road. Volvo’s are simply expensive to repair and they do break down more than average. The bodies look good forever, they don’t rust, but the electicals and mechanicals require big $$$ over time. No more Volvo’s for me!