So how do we go about handling cash-strapped churches and other institutions that routinely haul 10-15 passengers in ubiquitous Dodge and Ford fullsize vans that P-metrics of any flavor don’t belong on such conveyances?
What is the savings of $50 per tire compare to lives lost.
We’re talking about different things. Your 4-Runner has the option of P or LT tires. We’re talking about P tires on trucks that require LT ratings like F250, 3500 pickups, etc. where the P series tires don’t come close to the GVW ratings. I’ve seen Econoline 350 vans come in with P series tires and wondered who was negligent enough to mount those.
I doubt Tire Rack would sell you a P-metric tire if they knew you were mounting them on a Silverado 3500.
Better how? I had a customer complain that his gas mileage on his Expedition dropped significantly. I noticed new LT rated tires on a car that specified P series. Seems the tire shop sold him on the LT as being an “upgrade”. Sure they gave him a firmer ride, but at the expense of fuel economy.
That’s for the courts to decide. Church van wrecks due to wrong tires installed, the victims will sue the church. The church has no money so they will go after the negligent tire shop who sold and installed the tires, because they should know better. No reputable conscientious shop would put P-series tires on a 3500 van.
That is “better”, in a sense, than putting Ps on a LT application. Better to overspec than to underspec. But agreeably not necessary.
The church may be liable though, if the correct LTs were put on the van, but air pressure was neglected and underinflation led to a blowout and a crash
What was the explanation? Were used tires installed at a used tire shop?
Tire inflation pressures for 3500 series vans are double the pressure a passenger type tire can be operated at. That is an obvious indication of the mismatch.
You could get a job managing a tire shop, this way you can make sure every customer gets the correct tires.
For the Connecticut church vans, you could issue public service announcements, but not here, not on Car Talk.
I did indicate earlier on that this church was, and still is, relatively impoverished. They own the church property (land and buildings), as that mortgage was paid off decades ago by a different leadership committee.
As of the most recent years I went there, the church still needed a new roof, they had just take on paying off a replacement van, a much newer Chevy that replaced the nearly 15 year old Dodge.
So explanation: Poor church, pastor insists on less-expensive P-rated tires being put on church van ( the Dodge at the time), and whatever shop/garage he used went along with it.
Re-read what I said.
Where did I say REQUIRE. Yes - some larger trucks REQUIRE LT tires. Many small pickups or small SUV’s do NOT. And many come from the factory with an LT or P rated tires. It was one of the biggest complaints in a 4runner forum I was in. Some people refused to take delivery of their new 4runner with P rated tires and in many cases the dealer would swap them out for free or a discount.
If you use the Tirerack “tire lookup by vehicle” I’m sure the P rated tire would NEVER show up. But you can buy tires and rims by size.
We always called it, and documented it as a Goodwill Session, I have done this type of discount many times over to make sure the customer(s) left the shop as safely as possible… Most of the time it is a 1 time thing though, people and business will/can take advantage of your goodwill…
Even if the customer brings in loose wheels, most, if not (most) all 3/4 and 1 ton vehicles use 8 lug wheels, so that would throw a red flag to me and others I would imagine…
Remember the Ford Excursions?
We had many in our fleet at one time
Some door decals called for LT
Some did not, as I remember
But I seem to recall they ALL had 8-lug rims . . . the same ones as used on the SuperDuty pickups
I haven’t read all this but I’ll chime in anyway. Churches have insurance and vehicles owned by churches have the same insurance requirements. Even our little cemetery has liability and directors insurance through Church Mutual.
For the editorial comment, I have always been against church or scout buses, even though they are popular in the south. I think it is a disaster waiting to happen. Triedaq and I can argue about the better odds, more cars with more risk or one big risk, but I always cringe at church bus full of kids, driven by a volunteer and maintained by novices. Our church even had one for a while and it was one big pain in the neck. Roll a car down a ravine and you affect four or five families, but roll a school bus down a ravine and you affect 30-40 families. I’m against it.
What’s a scout bus?
For boy scouts or girl scouts?
Same insurance requirements as what? The building? the land?
If you meant the same vehicle insurance requirements as the general public, then there is none unless a state vehicle inspection is required. My insurance company does not know if I have faulty equipment or non-stock tire size/type.
A “Scout bus” typically refers to Scout, an on-demand micro-transit and public transportation service. Rather than running on fixed routes or picking passengers up at traditional bus stops, the Scout system operates like a shared rideshare (such as Uber or Lyft) using smaller, eco-friendly vehicles.
And why on Earth would you even think there would be a difference if a bus was used for boy scouts, girl scouts, or all scouts??? That’s a rhetorical question, please do not answer it, just think about it…
Gee, in most states, there are minimum insurance requirements for all vehicles. That includes liability insurance for negligence in driving or putting the wrong tires on. A church having liability insurance can certainly be sued for negligence if the vehicle they operate is not properly equipped.
Back before they were sued out of existence, it was popular for larger Boy Scout troops to have their own buses for transportation to camp and other events.
Those 15-passenger vans used by churches and other organizations have a long track record of rollover accidents going back decades. Once loaded up they have a very high center of gravity. Here’s a warning from the archdiocese of Cincinnati:
I can’t seem to find it, but I recall a warning issued by NHTSA about the age of tires on little used vehicles and if I remember correctly, they specifically pointed out church vans. This was shortly after the big Firestone recall in 2000. I did find one on checking tire pressure, but that one was 2011.
Doing my part to get to 400 posts!
When this gets to 400 can we stop .
@LoudThunder I asked a valid question, as I’d never heard the term “scouts bus”
I appreciate the explanation
But I strongly object to your insults and insinuation
That was absolutely uncalled for
I expect an apology
In public
No private messages
I’ve never heard the term Scout bus either. And like you the first thing I thought of was Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts because many of those organizations have their meetings at churches or chapels.
No, it’s on to 500!
Yah! I’m 400!