Look at your choice of words and your tone in your responses to Willey and to me with an open mind and teachable spirit and perhaps you’ll see how very condescending you are in relating with others.
My choice of words is just fine, what do you have to say about Willey’s choice of words to me he called me “oldie” and “idiot” do you have something to say about that choice of words?
Did you notice that I did not once reply with any type of name calling or harassing dialogue? Your partner willey certainly did resort to name calling, more than once. Who’s the adult in this situation? It’s me I am telling people acting less than adult how it is, and sometimes you have to be direct with people.
I must add your choice of words was less than what is allowed on the site (post deleted)Neither you nor Willey come from a place where choices of words was well taught.Perhaps that why you feel I am condensending.
oldschool… what are you talking about?
Where did I say “jumping the gun” and “it’s your pcm”. All I said here was that I found you condensending as well.
What I object to is you interjecting yourself into a thread where I was posting with someone and you came into with your condensending attitude. You didn’t even read what the OP had to say or read what we were talking about. It had nothing to do about diagnostic techniques, we were discussing how to by-pass a circuit before you stuck your nose in there.
I thought your original post was organized well in chronological order of how the symptoms progressed and repeated. I did catch myself thinking, Geez, why didn’t she give us the code #'s?; it’s not the end of the world, though; all any of us would have had to do was say, “Hey, can you give us the code #/description?”.
You said you paid $94.00 for a diagnostic check that targeted the battery. Well, you have the right to be given a written report of the info they came up with. Since the check involved the battery, it was probably the procedure that checks battery, charging system, and starting system. Call or go over and ask for all the info they came up with. You paid for the test; you deserve to know the results.
You said you were going to your mechanic next week. Maybe you could go to a Pep Boys, Autozone, or Advance Auto Parts place for a free code check. Bring along a pad and pencil; write down all the info that comes up on the scanner (hand held computer) especially the codes that start with P !!! Then get back to us. There are many people here eager to help you!
PS: don’t forget to share all the $94.00 diagnostic test info with us.
First of all you did a good job describing the problem. Your post is alittle hard to read because it is all one paragraph, but that won’t keep me from responding.
If you can get the codes that would be a big help. Knowing what the code is would give us a better idea of where the problem is. Just because you didn’t know to include that in your first post isn’t any reason to be condensending.
If you are going to get the codes read include everything you can, code number and description if they give it to you.
I doubt it’s a PCM problem, it sounds like the mechanic was guessing at the cause.
As caddyman suggested, get the charging system checked, the alternator could be defective and not charging properly. I have seen problems like yours because an alternator isn’t charging. The car will run off the battery and when you apply an additional load like putting on the brake lights the car can stall. Most times the car will not restart because the battery is too low on charge.
Do not replace the computer until proper diagnostics have been done. I would also have the fuel pressure checked as well.
Look in the passlock thread. you said “The problem is your PCM”. I think you are jumping the gun by saying this
Willey threads are open to all,they are not private conservations to you.
Again willey you cannot bypass the circuit if the vehicle is already in theft mode and you did not ask the OP the status of the theft light, this is critical if you want to give advice on bypassing the passLock system.
Marilyn, what about the AIR FILTER? It needs to be clean and not iced up to let enough air in the engine for proper combustion. Just like the furnace in your house. I ususally change it once a year and the cost is very modest.
Before there were computers and codes, good mechanics systematically checked the electrical system, fuel system and other items that may affect poor running.
Although the gas filter was changed, your fuel pump could also be wearing out; you mechanic should check the fuel pressure as well.
Again you miss the point. You can’t seem to grasp reality. The issue the OP is asking about is BY-PASSING the PASSLOCK and the PCM is the key to it. It has to be tricked into thinking there is a reference signal so it will alow the car to start.
No one was talking about diagnostics, we were talking about by-passing the system. How many times do you have to be told.
Thank you - I may not know car mechanics but I am one very organized person. I had no idea what this mechanic mumbo jumbo is on my receipts - I’ve only gone by what was told to me at the time of service. So here’s what the 2 garages gave me in written form:
#1 12/10/09 - cel on & car stalling “Found DTC P1600 PCM interal failure. Found bad battery” They replaced battery.
#2 Same garage on 12/11/09 after cel came back on "Found trouble code P1607 for internal ECM failure. Cleared code and did ECM reset per Honda website. Code does not reset. Intermittant failure. Drove vehicle three times. Code did not reset. If code returns, will need to replace ECM.
#3 Different garage which specializes in Honda and Toyotas on 1/6/10. “Eng light P1607 internal circuit problem with computer” I guess this is why the mechanic said I need a new computer.
Can you let me know what all this means?
I guess what upsets me most about the $94.00 is that the guy told me they do the test and when they find the first thing, they fix that and assume it will take care of the problem. My point is: don’t stop at one diagnosis; check all the diagnoses and see if other things are going on, also. Whatever happened to the days when a good diagnostician (either car mechanic, doctor, attorney) asked questions, listened and came up with diagnoses based on their knowledge instead of a computer - seems to me the human mind is a much better computer in many cases. Anyway, thanks for your kindly-worded help!
Thank you, Willey. Please see my posted reply to karl sieger wherein I give all written information provided to me by both garages. Aside from the car problem which seems to be consuming me right now, at least you, karl sieger, and several others on here have renewed my faith in the kindness of mankind. I just don’t handle condescension and arrogance very well and don’t “suffer fools lightly”. So thank you for having the patience to help me out.
Since I have an '03 Civic I’m following this thread as a learning experience just in case I run into something similar with my Civic. It seems many mechanics replace the sensor when they see a code, when perhaps the sensor is fine it is just doing its job. In other words, not really solving the core problem. Once all this gets figured out I’d appreciate hearing about the final solution. Good luck, it seems you are getting some good leads and info now. UT
This question about Honda code P1607 came up a couple of days ago. Your mechanic might gain something from it: http://community.cartalk.com/posts/list/2134953.page
I would check the power supply voltages, at the PCM (engine computer), and compare to the voltage value of the battery. If they are not the same, I would find out why (a poor ground, an electrical connector with resistance (ohms), or, at other electrical connection points).
The PCM might really, be defective. A used one is available from salvage for about $150 (carries a 30 day warranty).
A good source for Honda diagnostics is: www.tegger.com/hondafaq/faq.html. There, click on the appropriate problem. This information, of course, is for your mechanic. I would be leary of a mechanic who says, “I know all that.” or, “I’ve done all that.”…especially, before even looking at “all that”!
I find it hard to believe someone charged you $94 to determine you needed a new battery. I am not surprised you needed one though. My Civic needs a new battery every four years, like clockwork. For future reference, get your battery tested for free at an auto parts store like Autozone or Advance Discount Auto Parts. If you need one, they will install it for free.
In order to help you, we need to know the alphanumeric codes generated by the CEL, not your mechanic’s interpretation of those codes. Please go back and ask for the alphanumeric codes they got on their code reader. Then post them here. We would love to help, but we need more info.
Based on what you have told is, we don’t know enough. We need more please.
And how many time do you need to be told you can’t easily bypass when the vehicle is already in theft mode? and you need to find out if the vehicle is in theft mode.
Do I need provide any more evidence of his condensending attitude.
Very well said, marilynclare. Empathy and compassion should be our first response to such posts. Not everyone has the benefit of the experience and knowledge of the regular posters on this board.
I had similar codes on my '06 Toyota Corolla and similar symptoms, i.e., the car would revert to limp mode. I did indeed have to replace the computer and things have been fine since then.
There are several things you might consider in regards to this problem.
Unless the job has been performed already, your car is under a Recall for a faulty ignition switch. This can cause stalling problems at any time and could lead to power loss to the ECM (a.k.a. circuit failure) under certain circumstances.
This Recall can be performed by any authorized Honda dealer and will cost you nothing. It’s a very good idea to get this done even if that is not the problem.
You state the timing belt, etc. was changed about 5k miles back. It’s quite possible to have this job performed and the ignition timing will be off quite a bit. If this occurs, especially with retarded timing, you may not even notice the performance difference but over time the retarded timing may have a tendency to load things up (richen it).
Eventually this has an affect on the idle circuit, EGR circuit, etc.
In theory the timing should not change if everything is put back into the same position, but in practice it can change; sometimes quite a bit. A good shop should check the timing after a timing belt job no matter how certain they are that it has not budged.
When you come with “hat in hand” be honest and not just be putting on an act.
Honda’s recommend diag for this problem.
code p1607
- reset PCM
- if code returns, substitute with known good PCM.
- if problem goes away, replace the PCM.
It is not that uncommon for PCMs to go out. Make sure you have your alt. tested first. I have seen a few times where a bad alt has burned out the PCM.
good luck,
myron