I really noticed the lack of spare tires at last November’s San Francisco auto show. Before last year only a few cars didn’t have spares (the mini kind), and most of them have run-flats. Last year cans of sealant and compressors were everywhere. Why? It is one of the easiest ways to cut weight. Less weight gives better fuel mileage, and they save a few bucks, too. I suspect most carmakers thought run-flats would be cheaper and better by now.
You ask a great question OP. If that info was compiled into a book, I think I would be a big seller. The closest thing I’m aware of in publication form is a very recent one from Cons Rep that lists known design problems causing recalls or unscheduled repairs, car by car, of cars from the past 7 or 8 years.
But that publication wouldn’t list a problem like where you have to remove the bumper to change the headlight. Probably the best method is to choose a car you are thinking of buying, then finding out one by one by researching and asking. You’d have to compile a list of questions, like is there anything unusual time-wise or $$-wise involved with
- Oil changes
- Headlight changes
- Transmission servicing
- Coolant system servicing
- Tires
etc.
Other ideas – besides those mentioned above – would be to secure a copy of the factory service manual and read it before making a purchasing decision. If a salesman thought you were on the edge, they might be willing to lend you a cop or make it available to you on-line. And if you have access to the AllData computer database, you could use it to determine how much time is allotted to do various service procedures.
It’s a good question, but I don’t think what you are asking is currently available. But there might be a business opportunity to someone who does make it available.
In all honesty, if I were to shop for a new car, lack of a full-size spare on a real rim would be a major issue for me
If I didn’t see a full size spare on a real rim in the trunk, I’d ask the salesman to get me the brochures which list the options. If he wouldn’t or couldn’t do that, I’d tell him “Congratulations. You’ve just lost a sale.” And then I’d walk out.
Wow, thanks guys and gals. So many good and relevant comments. Perhaps ‘Dirty Tricks’ was strong language, but I think everyone gets my point. The checklist idea is a good one. Of course I’m not going to miss the dipstick and spare tire, I was looking for suggestions for other issues I hadn’t thought of. Insightful said the Honda Fit’s sparkplugs are under the upper intake manifold; point well taken.
Barkydog makes a good point about drive-by-wire. I don’t like that either. What happens in 8 or 12 years when that chip gets glitchy? Isn’t that basically how Toyota got in trouble recently with the unintended acceleration problem? Of course I will most likely get a manual transmission, so I would just shift out of gear (unless the transmission is shift-by-wire I guess).
There’s another point, although I really cannot call it a dirty trick, more of an improved technology issue, but apparently automatic or CVT transmissions get better mileage than manual transmissions these days. What a topsy-turvy world we’re living in, hard for me to accept a thing like that.
Turn signal noise over the radio, hadn’t even thought of a thing like that. I guess its like some of you said, they’re going to get you one way or another.
Obviously I wouldn’t trust the salesperson. Life has taught me that any commissioned salesperson will try to read you and give you the answer they think you want to hear, because they’re trying to sell the product or service. That’s a reason why I asked the question here.
I know Consumers Reports doesn’t like most of the touch screen controls, especially Ford’s. I agree. With knobs and buttons, after a while your fingers know what they’re feeling, kind of like braille, and you can change the radio, a/c etc without taking your eyes off the road. I don’t know about the ones in cars, but the touchscreen on my new laptop is overly touchy, opening up things and moving the cursor when I hadn’t intended to do those things.
I notice there’s a lot more than I need in even the most basic car. I could do without power windows, automatic door locks, power steering, even electronic stability control. How about driving at a safe speed for conditions in the first place? But I’ m gonna get all of this whether I want it or not, because its all standard.
One more thing, I test drove a Honda Fit and noticed the head rest forced my head at a point a little more forward than I would be comfortable with. Later I saw a Yaris next to me at a red light and noticed the drivers head at that same awkward angle. I just read in the Consumer Reports that this is a new Federal Regulation, supposed to protect you from whiplash in a rear end collision. (Heavy Sigh) Like you all said, they’re gonna get me one way or another.
Sorry such a long post, but at least I’m following up on my own thread:-)
It would be a good idea for potential car buyers to try and think ahead about future maintenance needs as that could sway their opinion on whether or not to buy the car.
A large number of people are stunned/irate/shocked when they discover that their car needs a timing belt at their expense. They may discover this when reminded during a maintenance service or in the worst case scenario; when the belt breaks.
Just an anecdote in regards to your comment about the salesman telling the customer what they want to hear. In my stash of junk somewhere I’ve got a book from 25 years ago with the topic being car sales. This one salesman was pretty shrewd and apparently he was very good at reading people and gleaning a lot of info from a few random comments or a quick look through a car that was being considered as a trade.
He would excuse himself for a moment and go to his office. In his office he had a large file cabinet with folders sorted by subject and stuffed full of photos and awards along with a box full of gadgets.
If it was an elderly couple then he would place a photo of himself on the desk which showed him standing there with a couple of grandkids; even though the kids were not related and were photo-ops only.
If he felt the customer was Republican or Democrat he would place photos of himself shown shaking hands with a local Rep. or Dem. politician.
If the customer was a farmer type he would place a photo of himself out on “his granddad’s farm” and a toy John Deere tractor on the desk.
If the customer was religious there would be a pic of Jesus on the wall behind the desk or a photo of himself standing in front of a church; denomination optional depending…
If the customer was inclined to go fishing there would be a pic of him holding a fish although odds are the fish was bought at the market and never caught by him with a rod and reel…
The minute the customer walked into the office they felt a common connection with the salesman even though it was totally fake BS.
Guess you could say the guy was attuned to his clientele… 
Regarding the privacy thing: So I guess even the low end cars now have “black box” data recorders now? I was hoping I still had a chance to get a new car without one, or am I too late? It’s not the kind of thing that gets mentioned in car reviews, so that’s why I asked it here.
And don’t get me wrong, I understand its a double edged sword. There was a thread a while back where a few of the regulars said they’d welcome such a recorder because it would more likely exonerate them rather than incriminate them, and that would probably apply to me. Heck, I don’t even have any parking tickets outstanding. But for someone who still believes in privacy rights, its the principle of the thing. Once that data is collected, who knows in what ways it can be used in the future.
Similarly, I absolutely refuse to sign up for any store “loyalty” cards. Fortunately, I live in an area where I still have options to buy my groceries at stores that don’t have these cards. The point is, they have no legitimate reason to collect that data in the first place, and once they have that data, they own it, and it can be used to manipulate you in ways you wouldn’t even think of. I realize that many people don’t care about such things, but I do, and I refuse to be a party to my own destruction.
Also, as you may have guessed, I avoid facebook like the ebola virus.
No, I don’t have a smartphone. Actually, I’ve never had a cell phone. People look at me like I just stepped off a boat from a third world country when I say that, but its true. I keep a small circle of friends and associates, and the people close to me know that I am just a difficult person to get a hold of, I kind of pride myself on that. And its backfired on me a few times, like the time I broke down in the middle of the night 20 miles from nowhere on the Delmarva peninsula. So now I am in the market for a cell phone but I’ve gotta try to find one with a removable battery . As I understand it the only way to keep it from tracking you is to remove the battery; that’s why most of the phones now have the battery sealed inside, so they can track you.
I don’t consider myself to be a religious person, but if you talk to certain evangelicals, they’ll say that Apple and Samsung are in cohoots with the gov’t, and this is all part of the one world order, eventually, if you don’t take the chip, you won’t be allowed to eat, and so on. Stuff that I would have dismissed as crazy conspiracy theories 5 or 10 years ago, but we sure do seem to be headed in that direction. And the bad part is that nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care, as long as they have heated seats, and refrigerated cup holders, and 700 radio stations to listen to.
There was a quote from an article I read in USA Today a few years ago by a federal judge, I forget the exact words, but it went something along the lines of, “A person who knows all of the movements of another person knows everything about that person, whether they go to the gym, what bars, massage parlors they might frequent, what church they attend, what political groups they belong to, where they work, live, play, etc” If you really stop and think about it, its downright scary, but I guess we can’t put that genie back in the bottle, can we?
One thing that should be on the checklist is to take a look at the jack provided by the factory (assuming the vehicle comes with a spare) I didn’t find the jack provided with my mom’s 2010 Prius very user friendly. The crank handle (The silver part on the right) fits into the eyelet on the jack but very loosely so you have to really crank like mad to lift the car. Not that you normally need to change a tire often but this design proved to be a pain to use while kneeling on our gravel driveway.
The black box data recorders do not transmit the data. They are part of the engine computer and they log things like speed, throttle position, brake position etc and store that data for a period of time. It freezes when the airbags deploy and can only be recovered by taking the computer out of the car, or at least unplugging it. I don’t think you can get it from the data port used by the code readers.
Sometimes dealers will hide a black box in the car to track it if you are financing the car through them. This is so they can find the car to repo it if the buyer misses too many payments. Best to go through your own bank for financing. If you get the satellite radio service or OnStar or Lojack, then of course the car can be tracked everywhere it goes. Not sure about the satellite radio but it does have to have a code in order to work so something is going on there.
As for cell phones, you can get a burner phone. I like the AT&T Go Phone. It only costs me about $100/yr as I don’t use it very much. Don’t get a smart phone, especially an Android phone. If you can get a flip phone, that is the way to go. They can be tracked, but if the bluetooth is turned off, they cannot be “paired”. Tracking them is very difficult too as most do not have built in GPS, so they can only tell which tower you are near.
If you buy a Go Phone and the refill cards with cash, the phone becomes almost untraceable. The hoops one would have to go through are simply not worth it unless you are a very high value target or have committed a heinous crime. About the only way to trace you would be through facial recognition software from the security cameras in the store you bought the phone from. You could take a bus to the store, wear a hoodie, ballcap and dark glasses when you buy it I suppose.
I’m not that paranoid about privacy because anyone who follows me around, listens in on my conversations and reads all my posts is going to die, of boredom.
If you do get a Go Phone, call the number that you can use to refill the card and have them turn off texting, that is one feature you have to get them to do and for your voice mail message “If you recognize my voice, leave a message. If not, then you have the wrong number.” That cuts way down on the number of voice mails I get.
Facebook is OK as long as you understand the security settings and use them. Do not leave it with the default settings. I don’t know about twitter but I can’t really see any reason for its existence myself.
There's another point, although I really cannot call it a dirty trick, more of an improved technology issue, but apparently automatic or CVT transmissions get better mileage than manual transmissions these days. What a topsy-turvy world we're living in, hard for me to accept a thing like that.
CVTs and ATs can “test better” on the EPA mileage tests than a MT. In the hands of a motivated MPG-seeker, a MT will most likely beat out the AT/CVT. (Of course, in the hands of a tire-smoker, it’ll do even worse than tested…)
hey! 20 miles from nowhere on the Delmarva peninsula is my favorite place!
that's why most of the phones now have the battery sealed inside, so they can track you.
They have the battery sealed inside because it forces you to pay them money to solder a new one in when you need a new battery.
Apple and Samsung are in cohoots with the gov't, and this is all part of the one world order, eventually, if you don't take the chip, you won't be allowed to eat, and so on.
Ummm.
Then why is Samsung one of the last holdouts that has removable batteries in their phones?
“…Samsung one of the last holdouts that has removable batteries in their phones”
My Nokia Lumia phone also has a removable battery, and I honestly wasn’t aware that there is a trend toward making batteries non-serviceable for the average cell phone owner.
I will have to make a point of checking this detail when I get my next phone in about a year or so. Thanks for making us aware of this situation!
I never replace the battery because I usually do a 2 year upgrade cycle. The battery doesn’t have time to crap out. However, a removable battery is vital because sometimes phones hard-freeze and the only way to fix it is to remove the battery and replace it. That’s why I won’t have a phone that has a hard-wired battery.
wolyrobb: That actually looks like the jack for my '96 Grand Cherokee. I’d be afraid to jack up that heavy tank on the side of a busy highway with such a puny scissor jack. I’d rather call AAA for help, except I don’t have the phone to call them with
keith: I guess I can live with the black box recorder as long as it doesn’t transmit. (like I have a choice anyway) My understanding is it only records a period of time and then keeps overwriting the memory unless there’s an incident. Kind of like security cameras, nobody goes back and looks at that stuff unless there’s an incident.
I don’t want satellite radio anyway, that’s a subscription you have to pay for, every month, over and over. Radio, CD’s and MP3’s are plenty for me. I prefer a portable GPS to built in as well. The way technology moves, the in-dash one will be obsolete in a few years anyway.
I agree, anyone tracking my movements is at least going to fall asleep from boredom. For me, its the principle of the thing. They have no business tracking me in the first place, and one never knows how that information could be used against you in the future. An obvious example is your grocery buying habits could be used to deny / raise your life / health insurance rates.
I don’t see any need to post any personal info on facebook. Sure they have privacy settings, but once you put it out there, its out there forever. I’ve heard too many stories of people getting robbed, identity stolen, etc because of what they posted on facebook.
meanjoe75fan: That’s kind of what I was thinking, I can beat the EPA #'s with the manual, the way I normally drive, but wondering if that’s overconfident thinking? Besides, I prefer a manual trans, a lot of people cannot drive those today, I wear it as a badge of pride. Also may be a theft deterrent as a lot of criminals cannot drive a manual either.
Shadowfax: ". . . battery sealed inside because it forces you to pay them money. . . " Agree. It’s built in obsolesense (sp?) They want you to upgrade to the new one anyway. I laugh when I see people camped out in line for the iPhone 6. By the time they get it home and set up the way they want it, people will be camped out in line for the iPhone 7, and so it goes on. . .
". . . Samsung one of the last holdouts. . . " Good to hear that. I’m not current on cell phones. I’ll have to take a look at Samsung then.
Thinking some more about that Honda Fit sparkplug thing. If they really are good for 100,000 miles, then it’d only be an issue 2, maybe 3 times over the 20 years I expect to own my next car.
Like my '93 Festiva, doesn’t have a transmission drain plug, I was upset about that, but it’s only been an issue once over 19+ years, and my mechanic has a machine he said he could suck out the old fluid through the speedometer cable opening. Such a pain to check trans fluid on that thing, have to contort yourself and disconnect the speedometer cable to do so. I believed the part about the lifetime trans fluid until I started reading these boards a few years ago.
Anyway, the transmission and engine run flawlessly. Its all the stuff connected to them that is killing my old car, bearings, CV axles, rack / pinion, brake components etc and the inability to find the parts I need to keep it going.
So I guess that’s my particular advice. Change the oil regularly and the engine will run forever. Its all the rubber pieces connected to the engine that will eventually do in your car, as well as rust.
I see a lot of Honda Fits, Toyota Corollas on the roads, so I’m gambling that parts availability will be good for many years to come.
As I understand it the only way to keep it from tracking you is to remove the battery; that’s why most of the phones now have the battery sealed inside, so they can track you
Oh man. How about powering it down?
The battery is sealed inside because it is designed to fit in the thinnest, smallest space available and have the largest possible capacity. That means it has to conform to the package and is likely to be the full length and width of the package. But don’t let facts get in the way of more sensational explanations.
List of must haves:
- Foil hat storage so it doesn’t get wrinkled when not in use
Didn’t you watch Breaking Bad? Take out the battery to avoid tracking? Reminds me of that girl that testified at the Zimmerman trial. She exclaimed “don’t you watch CSI?”. I fear for the future.
I can think of one more item to add to your list, which is whether the navigation system can be programmed while the car is moving. In past years, many cars allowed this, but now most of them don’t. In fact, now that I mention navigation systems, another item for your list is what the cost is for updating the navigation system data, as this usually falls to the owner.
I suggest reading the owner’s manual cover-to-cover before buying the car. You’ll probably catch most of the things mentioned so far that way. I assume most manuals are available on the Internet these days.
By the way, putting the battery in the back isn’t really a dirty trick. It helps slightly in giving the car a better front-to-back weight distribution, which is why BMW does it. It’s also safer when jump-starting, as connections are made to terminals under the hood that are nowhere near the battery.
Yeah, I paid $100 to upgrade our Acura system which was a special price. Our Garmin though has more up to date roads though instead of thinking we are driving in a field on a new highway. I think as important is who provides the navigation service/software. Its nice to have but outside of the large screen and integrated system, the Garmen for $200 is superior. Again when it comes to software, electronics, and programming, I’m just not impressed with the Japanese. Too much nonsense and too little pure features. When you’re driving you want to be able to press a button and see what gas stations, hotels, restaurants, etc. are at the next few interchanges. You don’t want to go through 15 different steps to get there and spell out the town name.
This is stuff you’re never going to know before you buy though so if you get something you like, its better if you can stick with the same company.
We have a 2013 Honda Fit (last year before redesign) and one complaint is that it has weak air conditioning above 85 degrees. (We have taken it to Honda and after 4 warranty repairs they say all is well–but Honda forums and our son in the backseat beg to differ). I don’t know if this has been improved with the new 2015 Fit. If you are in a warm area take note of this.