Right! It was the dealer oil change that started this whole fiasco in the first place!
How much is free oil change worth if it’s not done correctly?
CSA
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It’s entirely possible that the dealership has some jackass policy like “any mistakes on the part of an oil tech means the tech is fired and so is his boss.” That could be why they’re blaming the oil seal rather than their screwup.
Bottom line is that they could blame magic pixies riding unicorns for the failure as long as they make you whole. They’re making you whole. Calm down and wait to see what happens when you get the car back.
I think you have misinterpreted some things. You said…
“lower block of the engine would have to be replaced and the upper or long block of the engine checked out undamaged. The lower block would be a new replacement from Toyota.”
IF this engine is a new replacement from Toyota is a LONG block then this means there is nothing to worry about as that includes cylinder head, camshafts, etc
The lower block (sans head,cams, etc) is called a SHORT block and this is where the potential of head and cam damage on the original head/cams/etc The head and so on is referred to as the TOP or UPPER end.
IF they’re installing a new LONG block then you’re fine and the dealer is to be commended for not trying to sweep this under the rug or by installing a 150k miles salvage engine.
And now the dealer is one employee down because they probably axed the guy.
[quote] “VOLVO_V70”: Marvel06 is stressed enough without comments like ( @glasspilot - Make sure engine is toast )
At this point whether it was a missing drain plug or a faulty oil filter seal or both it just does not matter.
[/quote]
Volvo, calm down! Nothing I said will “stress” the OP. I was just making a valid comment on a internet messageboard.
As the dealership has accepted responsibility is a good thing. But the service writer comment in the first place shows they were trying to slide out from doing the right thing.
I’m going to assume at this point the engine has to be replaced, the dealer wouldn’t do it otherwise. But a gas engine can run for a very short time (One minute?) with zero oil pressure. I had a girlfriend who had her oil filter fall off (Quick lube place didn’t tighten it!). As soon as she saw her oil light she pulled over and got towed. Just required a filter and refill, everything was fine.
In fairness, if you read the thread you would see that your comment was quite out of context
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I feel bad for the dealer and the tech who made the mistake. These things happen. The car is being repaired with s rebuilt motor with a one year guarantee. The probability is greater than 95% that if the rebuilt engine had a problem, it will happen in the warranty period.
When I was still working, I had female colleagues, some of them single parents, who would become stressed out over a car problem. Money was tight for these people. We had one fellow in the department who would always give them the worst diagnosis. If they came to me, I would stay calm and say, “Let’s go take a look at your car and see if we can find the problem. It might be something easy to handle”. Many times it was a simple problem.
If they are only replacing the short block of engine, is that not a key portion of the engine replacement?
It sounds like oil deprivation likely/typically damages the long block of the engine- camshaft, etc, which is the key part of the engine?
Also even though this situation is stressful, I do appreciate the straight up and informative auto specific responses.
The major load forces are primarily applied toward a “short-block”, mostly at crankshaft.
Heads/camshaft/etc… (in “long-block” part of the engine) are lesser stressed, but this is not to tell they are lesser important.
In oil starvation situation, it is well expected that crankshaft/bearings/pistons will experience damage BEFORE the components like camshafts/valves/etc… would get any notable damage.
Once I’ve read that short-block will be replaced with a new Toyota unit, I was gonna comment that it is as good as a new engine, as most of the damage was expected to happen there.
Dealer inspected the head and determined it is no damage? Great! It should be as good as new overall.
You really need to provide info about whether or not a LONG block or SHORT block is being replaced.
The former is complete top to bottom and you should take this without question.
If the latter is what is being used then one hopes that the tech working on has eyeballed the cam journals.lobes, and so on very carefully. They should be examined very carefully for signs of pitting or galling. Personally, I always use a magnifying glass as these kinds of problems may not even be visible to the naked eye. Non-visible problems MAY have a tendency to surface at some point in the future and become a major issue.
Hope that clears it up. At this point I have to rely on the tech doing the work as being one who closely examined those parts even if he did not use a magnifying glass which in some views may be overkill.
He confirmed that the short block will be replaced and long block will remain. He assured me that the lobes,etc have been examined by the tech and do not show damage. They will send out the cylinder head for “reconditioning” they don’t provide that service in house.
The pertinent information will be documented like photos,serial numbers, etc.
Given that new information in your latest post . . . theoretically, you should have no worries
Theoretically…I hope if there are any engine issues after this fix. They appear within the 12 months. Appreciate all the technical information.
Either the service writer or you is confused about terminology. Short block and long block are NOT two separate parts of an engine.
A short block consists of the engine block, crankshaft, connecting rods, and pistons. If you didn’t have an overhead cam engine, it would also include the camshaft, timing gears and chain, and any balance shafts.
A long block includes everything above plus the cylinder head(s), and in the case of an overhead cam engine, the camshaft(s) and timing belt(s) or chain(s).
Neither includes the oil pan, valve cover(s), intake manifold, exhaust manifold(s), fuel injection system, or brackets and accessories (alternator, etc.). These parts are transferred over from your old engine.
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It sounds like you’re being offered a square deal and you should be okay.
However is you don’t feel right about things after the repairs, consider cashing out and look at the new Prii, the RAV4 Hybrid, and the Accord Hybrid, all have great driver assist features not offered in 2011 and you might fall in love…
As a fresh Honda owner, I second that advise!
Driver assistance functions were a welcome addition to me.
It may deserve a separate thread which manufacturer is dong it better, I will only hint that in between Toyota and Honda takes which I considered (and where I’m obviously tainted now) you might want to select between the one which intervenes more eagerly (and has more false interventions as a result) and the one which is more “silent”.
Why not a hybrid? Some of us drive a hybrid to use less gasoline, not to save money.
If I lived where there was even reasonable access to recharging stations, I would have an all-electric.
2019 Toyota RAV4: 26/35 MPG
2019 RAV4 Hybrid: 41/38 MPG
6000 miles per year = 200 gallons per year for the regular, 153 gallons per year for the hybrid.
10 year savings: ~500 gallons, $1750 in today’s dollars. It’s hard to directly compare prices in 30 seconds. the list price is roughly $2000 more for the hybrid. Financially, it’s a wash.
You can argue about the environmental impact, but Lithium mining isn’t the cleanest industry and without environmental cost. For this person, a hybrid really doesn’t make sense.
As far as Electrics go, how green they really are depends on where you live. Many areas get a lot of their electricity from coal, so the emissions per mile driven are not much different than a hybrid; they’re just coming out a different smoke stack.
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The difference is that when the power company switches to cleaner power sources, your vehicle instantly gets cleaner. Good luck pulling that off with a gas car.
BTW, this concept applies directly to you:
@shadowfax. There are problems with cleaner power sources and electric powered vehicles. Kilowatts generated by wind power, particularly if the wind is strong increases the velocity of the kilowatts and causes hesitations in the vehicle as the brushes jump off the commutator. Kilowatts generated by hydroelectric electric means contain moisture and cause rust in the field coil of the motor. Kilowatts generated by coal fired plants are best. The carbon carried by the kilowatts retards wear on the motor brushes by replacing the carbon worn off by the commutator. Those people with an EV may need to have a top tier electric line run into their garage which transmits kilowatts generated exclusively by coal fired plants.
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@Triedaq you made me spit my coffee all over my monitor with that one. " Top tier electric line" indeed. That line is up there with the story about Mrs. Triedaq having hurt her ankle and needing to double crutch when shifting gears. Thank you for making an old guy laugh.
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