Saturn with a CVT?
Both the Vue and the Ion used CVTs sometime in the mid-2000s.
Both of these models were the US versions of vehicles that were developed for Vauxhall & Opel, and
they used the VTi transmission, which was built in a GM plant in Hungary.
When major reliability problems surfaced, GM dropped this transmission like a bad habit, and
I believe that there were class-action suits relating to this troubled transmission.
OK, to me Saturn stopped production in 02 even though the name lived on for a few more years, until they, like Pontiac violated the cardinal rule at GM and got dropped.
This was a few years ago.
This article sums up what has been said. It pretty much depends on who makes them and at least Ford has shown good results, better in fact then some of their gear transmissions.
Fewer moving parts means nothing and doesnāt the metal belt have many moving parts? The argument about low parts count falls flat if you consider that a modern, reliable car has a large parts count.
Whoever flagged me as off topic . . . RELAX
This discussion is about CVT reliability.
My story was about CVT reliability
That Saturn I mentioned was from a few years ago. Iām not talking ancient history here. It was from the 2000s, NOT some Subaru Justy from the 1980s.
@db4690
Though I agree 100% that ehow like Wikipedia is all taken with a grain of salt, do they really tell us anything we donāt already know ? If we knew for a fact the catapilla or Kubota made CVTs for their equipment and used the same type in a car, we would feel pretty good about their reliability. Unfortunately, the CVTs made by Catapilla canāt even be carried by a car. But, there are a lot of reliable manufacturers of transmissions out there, and this may be a reason to feel good that a quality maker were chosen for the car you were deciding upon. Thatās why I bought a Geo Prism and why we canāt say all CVTs are either suspect or all are good. It depends upon the manufacturer. And perhaps, Jatco is one of those manufacturers.
@WhatWho
Thanks for using āfewerā instead of ālessā. A breath of fresh air. ;=)
I just rode in my cousinās 2013 Sentra with a CVT.
In stop & go city the rpmās vary only with power output, not vehicle speed; strange feel if youāre used to the way a conventional auto shifts.
Gliding along at 30mph or so engine turns at ~1200 rpm, so often the exhaust note is very low, but not lugging.
Braking on a steep hill the rpmās rise for engine braking.
Taking an ramp onto the highway there is no abrupt ākickdownā, the rpmās smoothly rise to ~3000 rpm with acceleration.
Cruising on flat ground at 65 mph the engine turns ~1800 rpm, but varies with every little change in throttle as opposed to the locked in behavior of a manual or locking converter.
My cousin is very happy with the fuel economy and acceleration, better than her previous auto Sentra.
"The first Hydramatic, a fully automatic transmission was introduced in the 1940 Oldsmobile if I recall correctly."
That is correct. The Hydramatic was also used in some tanks in WW II. I donāt remember that the Hydramatic had to be rebuilt after only 20,000 miles. In the post WW II cars, I remember them being quite rugged, although they jerked as they shifted. The Hydramatic was used in Oldsmobile, Pontiac and Cadillac. GM also sold these transmissions to other manufacturers. Lincoln made the GM Hydramatic an option in late 1949 and continued using it through at least 1955. Hudson, Nash, Kaiser and Frazer also used this transmission.
Interstingly, GM had a completely different automatic transmission unit for the Chevrolet and Buick. The Hydramatic used a fluid coupling (no torque multiplication) in front of a 4 speed transmission. The Chevrolet and Buick had a torque converter that did the work that the gears did in the Hydramatic. There was a manually selected āLowā in the Chevrolet PowerGlide and Buick Dynaflow, but in āDriveā, the torque converter did the work. In 1951, Ford brought out an automatic transmission with 3 forward speeds, although it started in second unless one manually selected āLowā. This transmission did have a torque converter. In 1953, the Chevrolet modified the Powerglide to start in low and then shift to direct drive when the selector was put in āDriveā.
I find the discussion today between a CVT and a transmission with automatic gear changes similar to the discussions we used to have between whether the Hydramatic or the torque converter Powerglide or Dynaflow transmissions was the way to go.
Incidentally, there was a company, B & W that modified the Hydramatic transmissions for drag racing and the transmission was the āB & W Hydrostickā . Most drivers with an equivalent car with a manual transmission had a hard time beating a Hydrostick. This was back in the late 1950s.
āI donāt remember that the Hydramatic had to be rebuilt after only 20,000 miles.ā
TriedaqāMy source for that information is a recent issue of Hemmings Classic Car magazine, so you should dispute this with that publication if you have information to the contrary.
;-))
After some teething problems, US built 3 speed automatics became some of the most reliable ever made. Rolls Royce used a modified Hydramatic, for instance. My dad had a 1952 Olds V8 with automatic and while the rest of the car wore out, the transmission hung in.
Quality and durability went downhill with front drive models and tighening fuel eficiency standards.
IMHO, the value of a CVT is augmented by our use of the computer in all transmissions. The gas pedal in most cars is just a "wish " device as far as acceleration is concerned. How fast and in what gear we actually do it or whether we do it at all as in the use of stability control override, is entirely under the control of a preprogrammed computer. Enhanced reliability of a cvt over those of old depends on this aid as well.
A multi speed auto transmission is betterā¦ and less $$$$ to repair.
I have a 2011 Nissan Sentra with 160,000 miles on it and a CVT. Mine works amazing and in another reply Iāll tell you why it does. First off Nissan and Subaru were the first companies to really be the guinea pigs for the CVT transmissions in a production vehicle. The transmission itself has been around for ages and was actually banned from racing many years ago. Jatco, which was mentioned earlier in this thread is the same company that made them all along for Subaru and Nissan. I also would like to mention that all 2007 to 2010 Nissan models/vehicles equipped with a CVT received an extended warranty to a 120,000 miles. It is a transferable warranty so if you find one with tranny problems take it to Nissan and theyāll put a brand new one in. Ultima, Sentras, Rogues, etc etc. It was a pretty sneaky thing that Nissan did. Because itās not a recall, they donāt have to notify the owners. They just extended the warranty and didnāt tell anybody. Unless you came in for transmission repair, you would have never known . A lot of other car makers are going to be using that little technique in the future. So, regardless of what car you have what brand you have. Keep your eye out for any news releases about your vehicle. Ask the dealership about extended warranties on a regular basis. The car makers have figured out a way around recalls. The problem that early cvts had was that they would start whining and howling as they got hot. If you are climbing a grade and it got too hot, the transmission has a safety on it that causes your car to lose power and youāll end up on the shoulder. Itās happened to me several times. Many owners donāt know what to do so they have their cars towed to a transmission shop or to the dealership. If you just wait a little while for it to cool down you can get back to driving. Another big problem that I have found with Nissan is that they require you to use their transmission fluid or else your warranty is void. That stuff is $25 a quart in the transmission takes about seven and a half quarts to be full. The technicians at Nissan for run a check on your computer system and tell you that the CVT does not need its fluid changed.
The design of the transmission is definitely revolutionary but most of us Gearheads know that you need a damn transmission cooler on an automatic transmission. Nissan only offered it the 4 x 4 Rogue model. That little cooler is barely adequate. Basically Nissan built this little tiny cooler on the side of the transmission that lets coolant flow through this little tiny nest that supposedly is supposed to be good enough to cool the transmission. I have to stop here and I will continue in my next reply. Everybody out there needs to know about these Transmissions.
Nice note, ps volvo is not a moderator and is expressing his opinion
So as I mentioned above these Transmissions are horrible. The part that really pissed me off was that Nissan knows what the fix is. Put your hornetās nest and cooler on these peopleās cars, so that theyāre not all online complaining about your product. Wtheck is wrong with you guys???.
So a year-and-a-half ago, I set out to fix my Sentras issues. From lots of research and reading forums and talking to other owners, specially the ones in the hotter States. I was able to not only make my transmission reliable and never overheat, but I was also able to gain 10 miles per gallon and more power too. So get this, Nissan Enthusiast figured out how to make these Transmissions more reliable. You had to buy that Hornetās Nest part that was made for the Rogue 4 x 4 just to get the transmission fluid out of the tranny and into a cooler mounted up front. Many people were just going with Hayden transmission front mount coolers. Hayden sells the Best Transmission coolers on the market in my opinion and they are not expensive. I think I paid 65 bucks for a pretty large one. Back to what I was saying about Nissan and that hornetās nest. It was $160.00 2 years ago. Now Iām being told that Nissan wants close to $500 for that part. Hmmmm, yeah they know whatās wrong. There is tens of thousands of complaints from owners about these Transmissions and Nissan knows the fix. Of course if you go to the dealership they wonāt tell you anything about those coolers they will just tell you your transmission needs to be replaced. The biggest problem Nissan had and the biggest problem that you all will have when driving a car with a CVT is that it is a continuous variable transmission. It literally feels like itās slipping constantly, but thatās the way it works. Car nuts like you and I, will run back to the dealership claiming slippage. I aināt going to lie, it takes a lot of getting used to. Specially when youāre used to those gears shifting. Now letās skip ahead to the newer models. JATCO is primarily the Builder of most of the CVT transmissions out there. Nissan owns a considerable amount of that company. What theyāve tried to do since the 2013 year was to put stopping points in the belt system, so that drivers could feel some type of shift. They even put paddle shifters on some of the performance models. All to get customers buying again and two stop returning these cars to the dealership on a regular basis, claiming that itās slipping. What theyāve essentially done is ruin what they were trying to build. The transmission they had for the 2012 year, the one thatās in my car. It works great, just as advertised as long as you take care of some of the quirks.
Now Iām going to tell you what I did to my transmission to get an extra 10 miles per gallon. When my car was brand new, it had an advertised 34 mpg on the highway. Of course I didnāt own it then. When I got it it had 117,000 miles on it and got 29 mpg on the highway. I immediately went on forums, did lots of research to learn as much as I could about this transmission. Itās really not that complex. By no means would I ever try to rebuild one. After much research, I found guys bragging about how they took care of their problem by just using Redline CVT racing transmission fluid $13.95 a quart. Many other people were reporting no more problems by just adding a transmission cooler. What did I do? Well I did both of courseā¦lol
So I got a hold of Nissan to buy me one of those hornetās nest. It was up to $300 already. Add up the money for those 7-1/2 quarts & that new Nissan Hornetās Nest, plus a cooler, hoses and I didnāt have the money yet. . I found a guy on eBay who had a custom Billet adapter that he had made buy a machine shop. You could sandwich in between your stock hornetās nest and the transmission. It comes with an in-and-out port for the transmission fluid $150 bucks. I ordered one right away. I know theyāre steel ones out there, and Iāve heard horrible stories about them. Do not buy themā¦ The aluminum Billet one is the best. I have had it for over a year with no leaks, & no problems. The Nissan 4 Port version hornetās nest, leaveās you at a risk of contaminating your transmission fluid with your coolant or vice versa. Plus, Nissan was an arm and a leg for it.
I found a shop near my house that sold Redline CVT fluid. I bought eight quarts over a two-week period. Then I ordered a large Hayden transmission cooler, it came with lines.
Folks, I am not trying to sell you any product whatsoever. Iām just telling you what I did. I am a Los Angeles Uber driver, my transmission is as reliable as they come. I do need to warn you guys though about Nissan. Thereās a big large sticker on my dipstick that says " only use Nissan ns2 fluid". Well luckily my car was out of warranty, so I was able to go ahead and fix it the way I mentioned above. Their ns2 fluid sucks. Donāt think you can throw any old equivalent ns2 fluid in your transmission. Many shop will tell you as long as itās an equivalent itās fine. Itās not!! It will void your warranty. Nissan puts a special tint in their fluids, so they know when itās theirs and when itās not. Trust me, they would love to void your warranty. The newer cars have to use ns3 fluid. (Same warning) I havenāt tried that stuff, and I have no plans to neither.
Redline does require you to change it about 30,000 to 35,000 miles. But it less than $14 a quart. It is well worth it for the Peace of Mind.
Essentially what Redline did for my transmission wasā¦ it freed up the friction in the CVT. Not just a little, a lot. This is why Iām getting better MPG and more power.
In any car, regardless of the maker. Whenever you can free up friction in your Driveline, whether it be your by lightning up your rotating assembly in your motor, transmission or your axles or freeing up any friction. Youāre going to get better MPG and more power. Thatās what Redline did for me. Their product reduced the friction and basically lightened up the load on the motor & tranny. My friend, who has a shop that works on Toyota Priuses is getting ready to start doing this method on it some older Priuses. He wants to see if he can gain more MPG on them by freeing up their Transmissions. He told me he has many Priuses in there with transmission issues. Time will tell on that one.
Right now I am also testing something to increase the life of the redline fluid. Iām using a product that was never meant to be used on a CVT tranny. Many of you might know this but, Amsoil oil makes a bypass filter that is for diesel trucks and heavy equipment. They T off the oil line and run the engine oil through the bypass filter at low pressure and drizzle it back into the cap of the valve cover . The filters come in several sizes. Some hold one quart, another 1-1/2 and a 2 quart one as well. These bypass filters, filter the oil down to 2 microns. Even the best oil filters only filter down to 10 microns. These babies will filter your oil down 2 microns and finish the cycle of all your oil within 30 minutes of driving. Thatās pretty awesome. Iām actually going to put one on my engine. Right now I have one hooked up to that CVT that is Running Red Line. The CVT transmissions put out anywhere from 400 to 700 PSI. When I first added it I was filtering a quart every 45 secondsā¦lol. So I had to modify Amsoilās entry and exit system to be even smaller. Now Iām filtering about a quart every 5 minutes. Plus Iāve added an extra quart and a half to the Transmissions system with their filter. It was just something I wanted to try and if it didnāt work? Or I destroyed my tranny, i was just going to go get another transmission anyway. Theyāre pretty easy to replace and not too expensive. Well itās been on there for about 17,000 miles and my oil is still clean and the transmission still works amazing. When I drive 62 miles an hour steadily on the freeway Iām getting 41 miles per gallon.
Even though it calls me the Nissan nut on here. I am actually a Chevy guy through and through. I just donāt own one right now. I sold my 67 Nova about 10 years ago and Iāve had a few Chevy trucks since then. Right now I have this Nissan. I got it used, as a partial payment for a remodel I did. Itās painted Orange Pearl and I found a set of 4 lug 17" Nissan racing rims from a 2002 spec-v at the junkyard for 40 bucks each. My daughter and I polished the faces, painted the in-betweens and clear coated them. Itās a truly neat color. If you ever get a chance to paint a car, I highly recommend this color . It changes in the sunlight. I lightly wet sanded itwith 3000 grit, got out all of the orange peel then buffed it. It looks really sweet. I get comments on a daily basis about it. People canāt believe itās a stock paint and that its a 2011 carā¦lol
Iām new to the community and Iām sorry if I went off topic at the end there.
Mike
This might be an old thread but it still popped up on my Google near the top. Youāre right Volvo dude, there was no conclusion in what I read inside it. Which is exactly why I wrote what I wrote. So that when other people come here and fall on this old thread, they can read about some of the fixes for CVTās. Cvts are the future for all car makers. This Thread will keep popping up more and more as the years go by. Iām sorry that you did not read a conclusion in what I wrote but there was one. Please take the time to reread it again. As I mentioned above in my other reply. My Cvt works Beyond awesome. There was also a note in one of my replies to let owners of some of the past Vehicles know about extended warranties. I truly feel that Iāve added a lot to this discussion & Iām sorry you donāt feel that way.
Mike
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I had the 2005 Saturn Vue and it had problems. CVT problems and no throttle response. Back out of the driveway and nothing but idle. People honking horns to tell me to get a real car.