I discovered the joys of standard parts catalogs when trying to repair a pressure calibration ‘dead weight tester’ at my first job. The piston seal? A piece of worn out leather. The senior tech tossed me the o-ring catalog and we had a replacement piston machined with the correct groove in no time.
It costs money to design something. It’s foolhearty to try to redesign something that’s already been designed. No design manager would allow this to go on for long.
I use them ALL THE TIME…EXCELLENT PRODUCT…IN Fact I seek them out each time I do a T-belt. THE ONLY THING…YOU EVER NEED TO SWEAT OVER IS PARTS MADE OF CHINESEUM
CHINESEUM is a common element found in DOG PARKS…When people do not pick up after their animals…If you have ANY parts made in CHINA…THEY ARE MADE OF CHINESEUM…
The Process is simple…The collectors go round the dog park collecting all the free Chineseum they can pick up…They then mold it into the shape of an auto part and spray paint it to look like metal…Then it is sold to us here in the USA…and VERY VERY SHORTLY after it is installed the paint runs off and the part falls apart or disintegrates right before your eyes…DO NOT BUY ANY PARTS MADE OF CHINESEUM…PLEASE
As for COntitech…I have installed well over 100 of them in vehicles of all makes and models…like I said I seek them out for their superior quality. Now I havent ever bought a kit with COntitech on it on a water pump…it is usually just the belt and the tensioner and Idler bearings made by or sourced by Conti-tech…and they do not source CHineseum… Usually bearings are made by GMB…or equivalent…SO HAVE NO FEAR CONT-TECH is a VERY GOOD PRODUCT…and no I am not a paid advertiser…in any way…Just a mechanic happy with a superior product… Top rate in my book, never one single issue to date.
Just watch out for that Common element I mention…LOL
Blackbird out…
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It’s been stated on this forum by some that VW timing belts are inferior and prone to premature breakage. Seeing as how VW belts are manufactured by Gates or Contitech I don’t think that statement holds much water.
About the only thing car makers actually produce is the engine, the stamped sheet metal, and the paint; everything else is pretty much farmed out including interior pieces, seats, and transmissions.
Well, they apply the paint, but I know what you mean. And on engine all the accessories, electronics, fuel system, everything but the castings (sometimes excluding pistons and camshafts) come from somebody else.
And that’s fine by me.
My Dad used to manage a small spark plug wire factory. They made the wires for the big 3 auto company’s. The only difference in the wire from AC Delco to Motorcraft or Mopar. Was the color and printing on the wire. The wire came on big spools from one manufacture. The same wire was also sold to privet labels company’s. We all know someone who will say AC wire is better than Motorcraft (LOL if they only knew) Most all car parts are made by someone elise and some go to the car manufacture’s the rest go to the retail side.
OK4450, it is entirely possible that VW speced too weak a belt for the application.
“Has it been your experience that the auto manufacturers design tires? Or do they tell the tire manufacturers what they need?”
A little bit of both in my business. Engineers need to provide a technical purchase specification, and often they go overboard. They give the vendor a set of manufacturing or test steps that they believe are necessary. As highly competent engineers, they believe that they know best for their product. Unfortunately, they may not realize that they just added a lot of cost by specifying more expensive steps than are needed. They say it’s only a little extra money. But when everyone does it that can add a lot to the cost. I see that all the time.
To clarify: In the case of tires - literally - I know of not a single case where an off the shelf tire was specified by an OEM.
When it comes to other components, - say, bolts - then, yes off the shelf is the way to go
- BUT -
Those parts have to meet a standard and be certified in some way. If the part fails the certification, then start over. That may mean a redesign - which means specially made - or it might mean changing the test requirements. But I want to be clear, that off-the-shelf might be used because it is convenient. But that doesn’t mean that the specs are altered to fit the part. The general rule is the other way around. That’s why you will find such odd parts specified in what is otherwise a standard type of part.
Mountainbike, the claim has been that VW timing belts are made of inferior materials and that is not the case unless one wants to believe that Contitech shuts down the assembly line so they can step down to a lower grade of material. The reality is that Contitech is not going to do that. Note that with the internet problems take on a life of their own. Throw in the lawyers and class action suits and this just exacerbates the problem.
Note also that many people consider a belt breaking prematurely as one that failed before the recommended mileage interval; not taking into account age and/or environmental conditions.
(One example I read was someone carping about the belt breaking at 80k miles. The belt was also 9 years old at the time. Premature breakage? Not in my opinion.)
Same thing with the claim that Ford uses inferior suspension components. Not. The Ford OEM parts are made by the same company that produces them for almost every other vehicle on the road; along with aftermarket branded parts such as TRW, MOOG, or fill in the blank.
Last year I replaced both upper control arm/ball joint assemblies on my Lincoln after the roads here trashed them. Both new assembiles were MOOG and both are stamped TRW, same as the ones the car rolled out of the factory with. Federal Mogul makes them all and it’s not the first time I’ve seen this. In some cases you see a part marked MOOG and the rubber boot is marked TRW. In some cases the arm is TRW and the ball joint is MOOG. It’s all a grab bag depending on which plant (they have a lot of them) the parts roll out of.
A blurb I ran across recently on the AutoZone website states that, in referring to their store brand products, that Dura-Last gaskets are actually made by Fel-Pro. There is no way that Fel-Pro is producing inferior gaskets for resale by AZ; same as the timing belt and suspension component issue.
The name brand angle of things always surfaces with many people wiling to spend more for the name on the box based on the perception that the name alone means superior quality.
Capri, I’m sure that’s true, but that wasn’t my point. OEMs don’t design tires. They provide perormance and size specs to the tire companies, who provide existing tires, already designed and in manufacture, that meet the OEM performance and physical specs.
In a very rare case, such as the Bugatti Veyron, no existing tire will meet the OEM’s specs. Michelin had to design and manufacture special tires for that vehicle…but Michelin designed the tires, not Bugatti. Those tires are rumored to cost $30,000 a set.
Having been in design and development for many decades, I have to agree with TSM and MikeInNH. Consider this scenario. A concept is developed. Potential part vendors are contacted with an RFQ on a component specification. Their response goes something like this; your part is custom and will require $145k NRE and a lead time of 20 weeks. Cost in 20k unit qty will be $4.50ea. However, we have a similar part that is standard product for us, price in 20k qty is $2.86ea and it is available immediately for prototyping. Which direction would YOU choose if at all possible?
Contrary to some assertions made in this thread, part cost is always at the top of considerations in design and remains so throughout the entire product lifecycle. The pressure to design within cost constraints where the final price has already been established and have to maintain a minimum profit margin is very difficult to accomplish. On top of that, some larger companies target VCP activities on established products with a target on the order of 10% reduction/yr. Designing in a vacuum might be possible for specialty or luxury products but those days are LONG gone for everything else.
Automotive manufacturing is primarily a business of assembly. Almost all components are farmed out to industries that specialize in the manufacturing of those components. For example, no carmaker makes a transmission. They may assemble the components but they do not fabricate any part of it themselves.
One other facator is that the guys designing the motor do not posess the knowledge and/or experience to be trying to design a belt. The guys who design belts are the belt experts. It’s a speciality of its own.
used to have a job doing cost analysis as one of those wire factories. There is HUGE difference in the cost composition of parts produced for big box and price-sensitive chain part stores vs. OEM and premium part stores. actually the bigger the box store, the lower the end quality. I think its why they jumped on the china-wagon with their corporate body as soon as they could. no concern for lasting quality beyond their warranty/return period. unfortunately, now the german OEM seems to only be building to that 4/48 warranty period now – which is WHY the american, cottage business improved-engineering shops around florida are making the best repair/CNC parts anymore for the folks wagans and BMvv ers. I have concerns about anything made in mexico, but less concern than chiner made.
Dude, thread is 6 yrs old…
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I’ve heard buy year one of japan made car versions and the last year for US made. japan wants zero defects for good consumer reviews and good reputation and they may lose money year one to reduce cost in following model years. US made cars rush to market with questionable quality and improve quality as market and regulators demand in following years. germans build strictly to the warranty date. english are held most hostage by thifty german suppliers, which become their weak point - not counting lucas.
You are posting hard to read nonsense on an old thread. Stop it!
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+1
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just curious if you are the administer for threads? a comment 5 years later is valid on this topic-- consider this is a timing belt topic with a 5year replacement cycle. big box stores are places like wa1mart, home debot, sans club, etc… chain part stores are autozn and advance aut0.
Thank you very sharing your knowledge because I have been using GATES or Bando recently and always wonder if Conititech made a superior product.
Is Conititech the same as Continental timing belts?