Comparison: Plug-in EVs/PHVs, small displacent turbo diesels & Det3 US offerings

If people wanted them, they would be here, Euro 4 emissions standards are even more stringent that U.S. standards as are the ENCAP standards. There’s nothing keeping Ford or GM or Fiat from introducing their small diesel engines over here other than the majority of people’s lack of interest.

I do think VW is doing the right then in offering diesels in it’s larger SUV’s (Touareg/Audi Q7) the TDI engines suit these vehicles better IMO, and the fuel mileage increase is significant. However given that these things are flying off of the lots and Audi canceled the diesel U.S. spec Q5, again it appears that the consumers have spoken and would rather have the gas powered versions.

I do think that for ultimate in fuel economy a hybrid with a diesel generator would be a better choice than a hybrid with a gas engine. A diesel can run for a long time on very little fuel at low engine engine speeds. I wonder why nobody has really pursued this.

Please note: I’m not trying to tell you what to buy, I’m just offering a friendly counterpoint to your suggestions. You have to look at both sides of an argument you know :slight_smile:

FoDaddy, I’m in your “boat” … I really don’t care what people choose for personal transport.

My objective is to share information that I have collected over the last several years.

MOST US consumers are TOTALLY unaware that there are vehicles like the Euro FUEL FRUGAL small displacement diesels … even … in midsized vehicles … many with serious towing abilities for their weight and smaller engine size.

Generally speaking, the only folks in the US that are aware of these technologies are those that travel Europe, predominately military, the upper middle class and above, and business travelers (including Federal officials … elected and otherwise).

However, it does disturb me that folks are propigating the idea that EVs and PHVs (like the VOLT & Leaf) are “ZERO emissions” when they are recharged from the US GRID where 49% of the electrical energy is from coalfired power plants that are on average 33% effient, 1 kWh (3,412 Btu/kWh) out for 10,400 Btu of coal input. Those coal plants emissions still contain CO2, SOx, NOx, even mercury after 35 years of “clean-up”.

According to a recent report coal plant emissions could increase plant parasitic losses between 5% and 20% (depending on plant design and fuel source), a direct impact on plant efficiency.

So it goes …

“If people wanted them, they would be here, Euro 4 emissions standards are even more stringent that U.S. standards as are the ENCAP standards. There’s nothing keeping Ford or GM or Fiat from introducing their small diesel engines over here other than the majority of people’s lack of interest.”

CO2 definitely! But contrary to your opinion, even the more stringent Euro Step 5 NOx (150 mg/km max, IIRC) does not meet Tier 2 Bin 5’s requirement of NOx below 70 mg/mile or about 43 mg/km.

The best Euro NOx emissions level that I have found so far is the Opel Insignia (Buick Regal without diesel?) 2.0CDTi (160PS) EcoFLEX M6 diesel that is VCA (UK’s equivalent of fueleconomy.gov) rated
. CO2 = 219 g/mile or 136 g/km
. NOx ==== 172 mg/mile or 107 mg/km
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=24829

Unfortunately, based on the US power grid’s 49% coal sourced electricity … and what I have been able to determine … the Volt seems to have emissions levels of
. CO2 = 319 g/mile or 198 g/km
. NOx ==== 217 mg/mile or 135 mg/km

By the way, my management contacts at regional dealerships have been telling me for many years about service personnel trying to buy fuel frugal Euro diesels. I seriously question lack of demand.

Just my experience(s) and observations.

I believe that for Euro Step 5 NOx is 0.180 for diesels and 0.068 for gas engines. Whilst Tier 2 Bin 5 is 0.50 for gas engines. Diesel engines are only held to Bin 10 standards which has a standard of 0.4.

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t2.php

Thanks for the correction.

A re-read of your reference seems to say Euro Step 5 NOx is 0.180 g/km for diesels and 0.068 g/km for gas engines.

However, Tier 2 Bin 5 is 0.07 g/MILE or 43.5 mg/km NOx for the “Full useful life” of the vehicle and 0.05 g/MILE or 31 mg/km NOx for “Intermediate life (5 years / 50,000 mi)” according to Table 2 of your reference.

Also, Bin 10 appears not to be applicable according to Table 2 footnote “b - The higher temporary NMOG, CO and HCHO values apply only to HLDTs and MDPVs and expire after 2008” … ???

Sadly, the VOLT, Leaf, and other EVs (because of the grid 49% use of coal sourced power) with probable NOx emissions above 120 mg/km … plus … several widely recognized US gasoline vehicles (like the 6.2 V8 Supercharged Corvette ZR1, 2 Door Coupe, Model Year 2009 VCA rated 32 mg/km NOx or the Chrysler 300C 6.1 SRT8 Touring VCA rated 47 mg/km NOx) could not meet US Tier 2 Bin 5 31 mg/km NOx “Intermediate life (5 years / 50,000 mi)” requirement without “emissions credit swaps” [“swaps” that must be completed/resolved within 3 years of the date of manufacture].
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=21916
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/search/vehicleDetails.asp?id=18273

At least that is the way it looks to me …