See, I stand by what I said. If they have enough turnover, and enough greenhorns that don’t know what they’re doing, eventually people won’t bring their cars in for poor service. They’ll take it elsewhere. Maybe where you are. Or guys like you, with experience.
I understand if under warranty, you’re married to the dealership. The only time I’ll take a car to the dealer is if it’s under warranty. Otherwise, I’ll fix it myself, or take it to a guy like you if it’s over my head.
FWIW, I think service writers should be old mechanics, or mechanics with a degree or people skills. You should know what you’re talking about and have some experience.
And I do understand that book time on some repairs is a joke. Production times on some wal mart dc “trips” (packaging arrangements) was a joke also. But you work through break to screw the system. Or I did, anyway.
Well, just because the guys were young, didn’t always mean they didn’t now what they were doing
Some of these young guys were very talented, but underpaid. Some of them stuck it out, and eventually moved on to better paying mechanic jobs. But some who were pretty good became discouraged and left to work in some other field. That’s a shame, in my opinion.
I guess it’s a shame. Or maybe not. They made their money one way or another, and the company pays for the quality of work that they want. You pay for sub par work, that’s what you get, In my opinion.
But not all managers think like I do. Some think, if I can get it done for X, why pay Y? When you’ve done the work yourself, you start to understand paying X might not be the best option if the guy getting paid Y actually saves you money in the long run. If the guy with experience wants more money just because he’s been in his position for a while, but offers no more than the dude off the street…that’s where I have an issue.
What about cars that people keep for 15 years? Haha. Off topic.
People like me keep whatever car they bought new for 15 years. Squeeze that lemon lol.
(Let me sneak in an off topic. @Scrapyard_John if you like mystery books, you may enjoy the books by C.J. Box. The main character is a Wyoming game warden always broke and getting into trouble. I’ve read them all. As a kid I wanted to be a forest ranger.)
I understand that, and I understand not all unions are corrupt. What bothers me about many of them though is that they lack checks and balances. The ones that don’t have, as a matter of their bylaws, routine audits by outside accountants, will never get my money. For example, in many unions, you have one treasurer who does the purchasing, receiving, and accounts payable, and that’s a recipe for embezzlement.
Let us not forget that there was a long stretch in the '50s and '60s when car manufacturers were flush with cash and gave in to the union demands readily to keep the factories running. That complacent behavior caught up with them in the '70s when the economy changed and Japanese manufacturers invaded the bottom echelons of the marketplace.
IMHO everyone in the industry contributed to the difficulties. The management, the workers, and the unions… and the outside forces. Nobody’s hands are clean.
I somewhat recall that @the_same_mountainbike. And didn’t a steel strike get fought out in conjunction with the UAW strike? I was young but the political and economic ramifications of the union struggles in the late 50s lasted well into the 60s when I began to pay attention to more important things like motorcycles, cars and girls… and money.
It was the battle cry for the ‘right to work’ movement before that movement came into being. My grandfather was a charter member of the cause before there was a cause.
Jeez, you guys were busy since I was in here this morning. I was going to close it, but conveniently cars reentered the discussion at the end. It’s a bit weak for me to ask now, but please keep it on topic now that it’s there. Thanks.
OK back to cars. As long as we are sortof into production. I’ve watched a few youtubes on the stamping plants both back in the day and the modern metal stamping equipment.
Not having a trade, I’ve always wondered how in the world they actually produce the molds and tooling for the stamping equipment. I suppose somehow it needs to start with a clay model or maybe computer CNC now, but then somehow carve huge polished dies?
The closest I’ve ever seen is the little round progressive dies for the tops of spray cans. Those could easily be cut and polished in a lathe, but the large dies are beyond me. Are they cast and then finished or something?
They stamping molds are milled out, but it’s a process that requires specialized knowledge. Toll & die design drawings have to incorporate in them the hysteresis effect (“springback”) of the metal in use as well as the ability of the metal to take the shape, as well as “registration” of the male and female molds. Often stamping require more than one step to get the final form and each has to be designed with these problems in mind.
If you get the opportunity to visit a stamping shop, I recommend it. It’s a very interesting process. You’ll be amazed at everything that’s involved, as well as the size of the molds. The molds have to be as stable as possible for a successful production run, and they’re surprisingly large and heavy.
O.k. To get back to cars, I bought a new Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon with the 4-4-2 trim package in 1978. I sold it 33 years later in 2011 after I retired. We bought a Toyota 4Runner brand new in 2003 and we are still driving it.
At the university where I taught, there were a couple of trucks used around campus that were made in the early 1950s that were still in use when I came in 1965 and continued to be used into the early 1970s. One truck was a1951 Dodge fitted with a tank and was used for watering. Another truck was a 1952 International fitted with a stake bed and the third truck was a 1951 Ford, but I can’t remember what kind of bed was on the chassis. The service area had a great mechanic who could also cut red tape. The Ford truck had a flathead V-8 engine that gave out in the late 1960s. By that time, the flathead V-8 wasn’t available, so this mechanic swapped in a Ford 6 truck engine from a salvage yard and had the truck back in service in less than a week. He also got permission to go to an auction when a floor covering business went under and returned to campus with two Chevrolet vans. He and his crew repainted the vans and had them in service around campus. This mechanic told me he didn’t see any need for new vehicles just to go around campus. Sadly, when this mechanic retired as head of the motor pool, his successor got rid of the old vehicles and bought new equipment.
Your campus mechanic sounds like my grandfather, a very smart and innovative man that repaired and repurposed things whenever possible rather than replace them.
We had a couple of Jeep Cherokees on our campus, but their poor reliability and cost of operation got them eventually replaced and dedicated to campus use only. I took them on business trips occasionally, and their V8s sucked gas at an alarming rate. And there was always something or other on them that was broken. Often it was minor, like a switch, a window regulator, or a seat adjuster, but it was always something.
Hopefully FCA has improved their quality. Hopefully.
There were a few times where I asked permission to find the parts we needed at pick a part
I was denied, and in no uncertain terms
So . . . instead of spending a few dollars getting the parts we needed to keep an otherwise good older truck in service, let’s spend tens of thousands to buy a new one
And the old truck was sent to the auction, where somebody obviously got a great deal. “Gee, I bought this truck dirt cheap. Now all it needs are a few parts from pick a part, and I can either use it for several years, or flip it for a tidy profit.”
There were also a few times where abs modules were faulty, and unavailable new. Instead of having the modules rebuilt by one of the countless companies who do this sort of thing, it was decided to send the trucks to the auction and buy a new truck.
In one case, the truck being condemned had only 35K miles and was in otherwise pristine condition.
I’ve never seen a stamping die made from castings, they are usually made from billet stock due to the incredible force being applied to them and repeated shock they must endure.
Typical to design in CAD and manufacture using a 3-axis CNC milling machine. The quality of the surface finish is really the product of the tool used and time- lots of time required to accomplish very fine resolution passes on the material.
Yeah, checked out a few youtubes on so get the general idea. A classmate has a youtube with a demo on a 5 axis CNC. I’ll have to see if I can get a tour sometime.
The great movie Schindler’s List has a scene wherein just after Schindler builds and staffs his factory the process of stamping a large pot is shown. It’s an excellent illustration of the heavy industry stamping process, albeit as it existed in the 1940s… and it hasn’t changed much. The same process is used for stamping car parts, however keep in mind that many parts require multiple stamping operations each with its own dies. Precision required for vehicle bodies to meet together for seam welding, proper parting lines, etc. are complex to accomplish.
I remember them making hinges but don’t remember the pot. Interesting though. So much to learn and so little time left. I really enjoy looking at the car assembly line videos and stamping plant videos though. Both current and back in the day.
