@jtsanders Reliability and repair costs are not the same! Some very reliable cars (having very few breakdowns) are still expensive to maintain and repair because they are either luxury cars or the components cost a lot. The VW Passat is a good example, with CR rating it as reliable but over 10 years of its life it costs far more to keep running than a Toyota Camry, a similar size and class of car and also reliable.
A Lexus is more reliable than a Chevy Cobalt, but the Lexus costs more to keep running because it s a luxury car.
A friend ahs a real Rolex watch, which will last him a long time. But every 3 years it needs a cleaning for which the jeweller charges $65. My $65 Timex only needs a battery every 3 years at $12 and lasts 12 years. So do your own calculations.
“A Lexus is more reliable than a Chevy Cobalt, but the Lexus costs more to keep running because it s a luxury car.”
Help me here… I really do not understand this…
What does this mean (“A Lexus is more reliable than a Chevy Cobalt”)?
Specifically, not in vague terms?
Is that all models and model-years, all equipment options?
If my cars have had nary a problem other than routine maintenance then how would a Lexus be more reliable? I truly can’t understand why people are so intent on “reliability.”
It’s like some people are hung up on this perceived “reliability.” I picture them going out in the morning and have their car not start or driving away and having an engine or transmission problem and having to walk home. Seriously?
For sure if I had “reliability” problems with my cars then wouldn’t I do something different? I’m not the sharpest knife in drawer, but I am more than a dim bulb when evaluating such things.
So called “reliability” is of no value to me, unless I can research a specific Make, Model, Model-Year vehicle, with certain equipment, and find instances where a flaw seems to be prevalent and the feeling is “that they all do that.” And I might add, that flaw has to be something that results in problems that are expensive or not easily remedied or can leave a driver stranded. Obviously, I avoid them from the beginning. CSA
CSA:
I’m trying to follow your logic and am not having success.
Suppose, I go to my longtime independent garage owner and say I’m thinking of buying either a BMW or a Toyota, and he/she replies with: “Our BMW customers spend on average 3x more than Toyota customers servicing and maintaining their cars.” Are you saying I can’t believe or learn anything from that statement?
@jtsanders. Good But @csa does not seem to get this. My mother in law had a Cobalt, for instance, and its A/c went out, the gas gage failed the door locks gave trouble. etc. All before 55,000 miles!!! These are things you normally don’t expect to fail on a Lexus, and they don’t.
However, the Lexus is still more expensive to maintain and repair than a Cobalt.
@csa I can be as “vague” or specific as you want me to be. If I state that the Fiat 500 is a crappy car from a reliability point of view, numerous sources will corroborate that!
We seem to have a problem with general truths and exceptions in terns of reliability. Many organizations track this stuff and some makes come out good and some terrible.
There will be some exceptions, of course that prove the rule.
Some years ago I was on a project in Nigeria, a country rife with HIV. We had hired a local office manager, a very headstrong woman. When the subject of AIDS and HIV came up she proudly said: “it’s not an problem in Nigeria, I DON’T HAVE IT”.
Funny how people who own the least reliable vehicles are the ones who always think the stats are wrong.
One stat saying that this vehicle or that aren’t as reliable or another is one thing. But when there are many multiple lists saying the same thing, then just ignoring it is being a little foolish.
What does this mean ("A Lexus is more reliable than a Chevy Cobalt")?
Specifically, not in vague terms?
Is that all models and model-years, all equipment options?
Most manufacturers will have the same reliability problems for years. Many times it takes a few years for a problem to show itself. By then you have 2-3 years of vehicles on the road with potentially the same problem. Also manufacturers are very slow to make major design changes (especially if it requires a major manufacturing change).
For sure if I had "reliability" problems with my cars then wouldn't I do something different? I'm not the sharpest knife in drawer, but I am more than a dim bulb when evaluating such things.
Reliability doesn’t mean that ALL of the same vehicles will have the problem. Just that a high enough percentage have a problem will it be determined unreliable. You could be lucky or just ignore the issue…or like I did (and many others) didn’t realize how unreliable the vehicle I was driving was until I switched to something else. For 20 years I was a die-hard Chevy man. You couldn’t pay me enough to own one now.
I had time to read the study and I now think the maintenance costs that came up with is not very helpful, at least for me. Everybody knows that an oil change on a BMW (after the free maintenance period is over) is going to cost more than a Toyota. I can do the math on that myself before buying the car and be prepared.
What I want to know is the chance of being stranded, annoyed by frequent trips to the shop, or paying for big repair bills. There are a lot of fun cars I would like to have and I can afford to buy them used and maintain them myself at a reasonable cost. But for major repairs and parts, I will have to cough up big bills. That is where it becomes a major hassle, both financially and time wise (which translates to more money lost!).
Everybody knows that an oil change on a BMW (after the free maintenance period is over) is going to cost more than a Toyota.
Really?? Why?? Maybe if you’re dumb enough to keep going to the dealer for an oil change it might be higher. But a good independent isn’t going to charge significant more for a BMW then a Toyota.
Maybe not for labor, but there is the cost to clean or replace the special oil filter and the cost of the extended lifetime oil used for BMW and Benz cars. Maybe buyers don’t understand that before their first oil change that they pay for themselves.
^
+1
Additionally, many–perhaps most–BMW engines hold more oil than–let’s say–a Corolla or Rav 4-cylinder engine. The number of quarts that are needed, multiplied by the cost of the expensive European-spec oil, would definitely lead to higher maintenance costs for a BMW.
Even on my Subaru, because I have the optional six-cylinder engine, I have to pay for 7 qts of oil at each oil change, instead of the 5 qts that Subaru’s four-cylinder engine calls for. I was aware of this slight difference in cost for oil changes when I ordered the car, but I can imagine that there are at least a few people who wind up…surprised…at the higher cost of an oil change with some engines, as opposed to others.
“Do you have an idea why it specs higher oil volume than others?”
No, I am not aware of the technical reasons for the higher capacity, but I like it.
The cost of two extra qts of oil is not an issue for me, and–like you–I think that more oil doing the lubricating is always better than a lower volume of oil taking care of that task.
Also, my dealership charges only $2.78 per qt for Valvoline conventional oil, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than even Wal-Mart charges. And, their oil change policy is “pay for 3, and the 4th is free”, so I pay them ~$50 each for three oil changes, and when you factor in the gratis 4th oil change, it really means that I’m only paying $37.50 each time, for 7 qts of oil, an OEM oil filter, and the crush washer that many shops wouldn’t bother to replace.
And I even get a free car wash and interior vacuuming each time. All-in-all, I think it’s a deal that is pretty hard to beat.
“The increased oil volume is there to support the longer oil change intervals”
Subaru didn’t lengthen their oil change intervals when they went with a higher oil capacity for their six-cylinder engines. The interval is the same for both the 5 qt 4-cylinder engine and the 7 qt 6-cylinder engine.
When I bought the car in 2011, the specified interval was 7,500 miles, although I have never gone beyond 5k miles. I could be mistaken on this point, but I think that Subaru may actually have shortened their oil change intervals since them.
The oil spec for European cars is generally much higher than for a US or Japanese car. Therefore an oil change for a VW will cost more than one for a Chevy with the same size engine, even at Jiffy Lube… The difference won’t be staggering, however.