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Can not bleed brakes, 2006 Hyundai Tuscon

2006 Hyundai Tuscon
Okay, like an idiot, while I got very distracted while replacing a caliper. I took it off then my wife needed me to take her somewhere and I figured I would be back before to much fluid leaked out…bad decision obviously.
I am pretty sure I drained most of the fluid out. I also figured no biggie. Ill just bleed them. So I bleed the Master Cylinder and all four wheels a couple times. No more air, but break still supper loose. I can firm it up (still can bottom out, but there is some good resistance) when the engine is not running, but as soon as I turn the car on, the pedal goes to the floor super easy. I am wondering if there is air in the ABS module or something.
I bled the MC by having the wife pump the brakes, hold down pedal, and cracking open the break line off of the MC, closing the line, and releasing break. Same method to bleed the calipers (except used the bleeder screw). Any help would be great.

Your driveway bleeding procedure sounds ok to me. There are usually two lines coming from the master cylinder, so be sure to bleed both of them. Then bleed the wheels next, starting with the wheel farthest away from the master cylinder. When you bleed the MC, you usually can’t get all the air bubbles out, there’s some air in the line at the MC, so you have to bleed the wheels more than just bleeding the wheel cylinders or calipers would require. You have to bleed the entire line in other words.

Be aware that on some cars it is very difficult to bleed the brake system from scratch unless you remove the MC and bleed it on the bench first, then re-install it. And sometimes the calipers can be nearly impossible to bleed unless you take them off their mounts and rotate them this way and that during the bleeding process. I’ve never had to do that on any of my cars, but I’ve heard of others who have.

I guess I might be inclined in this situation- if doing some more simple things didn’t get you back on the road – to take the car to a mechanic and have them do it with their presurized brake bleeding system. Bleeding brakes all Saturday afternoon isn’t that fun for you and certainly not for your wife.

You’re going to need a scanner that can communicate with the ABS/TCS computer. Then select ABS/TCS Special Functions on the scanner. Then select Automated Bleed Functions from the menu.Then bleed the base brake system.

Without the scanner, you can’t bleed the brake system properly.

Tester

I was afraid of the scanner issue. I am willing to bet my local advanced auto will not have one for me to borrow.
I did purchase (coming in the mail shortly) a vacuum (one of those pistol grip suction) bleeder. Although after I bought it I started to doubt its ability to do the job (due to the internet and comment above, telling me the abs module is the cultrate).
Is there anyway I can actuate/cycle the ABS solenoids (I think those are my problem)? I thought of pulling the ABS fuse and running the car? I would hate to have to rent a car dolly to get the car to the repair shop.

Concerning the need for a scanner, isn’t it true that:

    1: The system can be bled without a scanner, but you'll miss flushing the ABS unit.
    2: Flushing of the ABS unit occurs when the unit is activated (stomping on the brakes on gravel or snow)

I suspect if the ABS has air in the unit, you’ll need a scanner. But if it does not have air, what are the deficiencies with the above procedure?

Pulling the fuse for the ABS will not help, as the fluid will still flow through the module. Do you have any brakes at all?? You can try to gravity blead the brakes, basically what you did to empty the system. Just crack the bleeders on the rear wheels open and wait till fluid comes out, just make sure to keep an eye on the MC so it does not go dry again.

Any idea on how much fluid I should run through on a gravity bleed?
Total fluid through the system so far has been a little over a quart (tall bottle). About half a pint was put through with gravity bleed last night. I was saving my last quart of fluid for thee vacuum pump when it comes in the mail, but if the gravity bleed would be better (even if slower and time consuming) I would rather do that.

I have not tested the brakes after I on car bleed the master cylender/.5pint gravity bleed. They seem strongish until I start the car, then the pedal is loose as a … goose. If I cant get a good bleed with a hand held pistol grip vacuum pump or a gravity feed and still have the same conditions, I am thinking of a rope tow while in neutral, as the brakes seem to work with no engine + liberal use of parking brake.

“They seem strongish until I start the car, then the pedal is loose as a … goose.”

That makes me think your problem is with the ABS. The ABS can be disabled by pulling the fuse.
ehow.com/video_12213899_disable-abs-system.html

The reason they feel better with the motor stopped is you don’t have power assist. It does not mean you have brakes. With that said you may have some brakes while the motor is running but at the very end if travel. Slowly give it a tr

Anybody have an opinion on what I am going to call a hilbilly ABS flush?
If I get my brakes to a point that I at least get decent braking, take the car to a gravel road and slam on brakes to skid thereby engage the ABS, thereby pushing fluid through them. Then bleeding the brakes again.

If my specs are correct, your Tuscon has stability control. That means additional possibilities for air to become entrapped in the ABS modulator. There’ll be bypass loops and perhaps other opportunities. Once this hapens, it may be that the ABS module has to be bench bled.

I’ve attached some documents on a typical ABS system with stability control added. I don;t have access to the Hyundai documents, but perhaps these will give you some ideas. The Hyundai dealership may even be able to print comparable Hyundai documents for you.

Sorry I can’t be more help.

http://tijil.org/Scion_Docs/Scion_06_misc_docs/2007sciontc_ncf%20Folder/brakecon.pdf
http://tijil.org/Scion_Docs/Scion_06_misc_docs/2007sciontc_ncf%20Folder/brake.pdf

My ABS module sure looks like the Scion, and yes, it has traction control. They call it electronic stability control, but I think they are the same thing.

I’d bet that Hyundai has a procedure for bleeding the modulator. Stop by the dealers and ask them if they’ll print you up a copy. I’ve asked for dealer parts departments to print me up stuff like this and they’re usually happy to.

I called the deler, they said they were not allowed to give out repair info.
I called up an independant shop and they told me to cross bleed them. So hopefully that will work or the tow truck is coming to take it to the shop.

Here is some of the ABS bleed proceedure;

Connect the hi-scan (pro) to the data link connector located underneath the dash panel.
Select and operate according to the instructions on the hi-scan (Pro) screen.
CAUTION: You must obey the maximum operating time of the ABS motor with the hi-scan (Pro) to prevent the motor pump from burning.

  1. Select Hyundai vehicle diagnosis.
  2. Select vehicle name.
  3. Select Anti-Lock Brake system.
  4. Select air bleeding mode.

It’s a tough lesson, don’t let the system run empty.