Say what you will Guys but when the snow gets under the skidplates and raises the vehicle off the ground then traction is compromised on anything ,I too have lived in the outback all my life and I have seen vehicles(2wd with weight in the bed) that would push snow with the bumper ,then when that failed add the chains and you are good to go ,I have seen some over confident 4 wd drive guys(open diff s that werent worth a hoot in the snow) they would try to pull someone up a slight incline then practically get stuck themselves .What I like about 4wd is ,I usually dont have to put chains on ,if it gets that bad ,I refuse to leave the premises and another thing about 4wd ,I usually can get by with quiet all season tires .The old timey secret to going in wet snow was a narrow tall tire with agressive tread that would make contact with the ground .The last time I pushed snow with the RD 685 Mack (about a week ago )I didnt even use chains ,put about 5 tons over the rear axles and she went fine,but the biggest fault with that old truck is ,it doesnt have a differential lock (I do know a little about snow )
For you guys that think LSD is not as good as AWD, back when I bought my first house, it was in anew subdivision that the roads were not paved yet. On very rainy day, the building inspector got his brand new Blazer with "full time 4WD (now known as AWD) stuck in themud in front of my house. I got in my 66 Dodge with LSD, backed out of the driveway and stopped right beside him, wived and drove off. He was so POed that he refused to inspect another house until the streets were paved.
I also drove that Dodge on many road trips in glare ice. On one trip, I drove from El Paso to Shreveport on 8’ of glare ice, never got stuck. I have a Subaru now and I haven’t had many opportunities to drive it on ice, but the one time I did, I actually had problems getting it to go, it kept spinning one back wheel, and the front wheels were on pavement. I’m NOT impressed with AWD at all.
I’ve had a true 4WD too and it never got stuck. I liked it.
Kevin, I don’t think he’s gonna get much snow in Georgia…
My TB needed a limited slip additive for a rear differential change, so is it a limited slip differential? If so no way it compares to 4wd on demand, as in snowy icey, sand boat launches etc the 4wd kicks in.
For you guys that think LSD is not as good as AWD, back when I bought my first house, it was in anew subdivision that the roads were not paved yet.
I’ve probably driven in more snow in one year then you have your whole life. Of course you’ll find situations where LSD worked fine…but I’ve driven in situations where you’d be walking or calling a tow if you didn’t have 4wd.
it kept spinning one back wheel, and the front wheels were on pavement. I'm NOT impressed with AWD at all.
My highlander is AWD…BUT I can lock the power shift evenly so it always has a front an rear wheel moving. I drive to the white mountains almost every weekend for skiing…I wouldn’t buy a vehicle without this capability.
http://www.tohighlander.com/all_wheel_drive_lock_switch-156.html
I’ve had a 4WD Ford truck for 40+ years. 4WD is heavier and has a xfer case so gets somewhat less mpg. My truck requires somewhat more frequent and more time consuming servicing than my Corolla, partly b/c of the 4WD feature. But I haven’t found the 4WD components to be a reliability problem. Back when my truck was made Ford’s motto was
Ford trucks are Ford tough. You couldn’t watch a football game on tv without hearing that slogan. And I can vouch for that. It’s a very tough truck.
I’ve never had to replace any 4WD component to date. True, I’ve got a problem w/my transfer case but I discovered a bungee cord is an acceptable work-a-round. For me I mean. Of course I don’t stress my 4WD components to the limit by trying to cross the Sierras on a goat trail like some of my 4WD compatriots do, at least what I see in those magazines … lol …
The problem w/renting a 4WD is that rental 4WD trucks get the heck beaten out of them by the folks who rent them for a week to drive in places they really don’t have the needed experience to drive there. A friend of mine rented a 4WD truck to go on a holiday w/his family to southern Utah desert country and it broke down and ruined the whole week’s vacation.
So I think if you really need 4WD for your Wyoming trip you’d be better off to purchase a 4WD truck. But buy one with locking hubs, that way in 2WD mode the 4wd components of the front axel aren’t moving; i.e. the front axel is more or less like a 2WD vehicle front axel, the front wheels just free-spin on the wheel bearings and spindle.
The only other comment I’d make is to examine if you really need 4WD. If all you need is high clearance, then a 2WD truck will serve you equally as well. I worked on a cattle ranch in Colorado one time in the late 1960’s and the only vehicle I drove there over very steep dirt mountain roads was a standard air cooled VW Beetle. And it worked just fine. I had to stop and move stuff out of the way once in a while is all.
Good post@George, @Mike ,it seems to me that Toyota has had the superior 4wd system for years ,when you can lock the center diff ,you got some serious go power .
George ,thanks for bringing that up ,clearance like size does matter .
I had the spine jolting "pleasure ,ugh " of driving an off road Cat articulated truck for many hours,that thing was almost unstoppable you could ,front drive,engage all diffs,or completely lock all six wheels to pull together,it would go up to the bellypan in mud .I only had that machine stuck once and that was because the water coming out of the dump bed got the muddy creek bank extra slick,its kinda fun drifting something like that with all six wheels spinning .
The old Volkswagen "Squareback " wagons would actually push snow with the front end as long as the snow wasnt ridiculosly deep ,(dont know how good they steered when the snow got deep)
4wd is FAR FAR superior in driving in snow on very slippery roads then 2wd. It will keep you out of a ditch.
And…what is the percentage in “better than good enough?” I’ve dealt with enough snow in my time; I’ve been out there, as a mailman, delivering after storms where “all non-essential vehicles have been ordered off the roads.” Always, FWD, or RWD, is sufficient to get me (almost) everywhere I need to go, up until the snow’s deep enough that I have clearance issues. 4WD or not, you ain’t going anywhere when the snowpack is lifting weight off the wheels. In VERY rare instances, I have to plan alternate routes to places (with gentler hills)…but typically, momentum and anticipating issues before they occur is plenty sufficient.
In any event, what stops me is not MY vehicle, but roads getting closed by OTHER folks (generally, it seems, truckers who ain’t got enough sense to park the rig and get stuck.) As I said, 2WD is “good enough” to get me to my destination, up to (and past) the point that the road gets closed by John Law.
Drive the same speed in two similar vehicles...but one with 4wd...the 4wd will do a much better job of keeping you on the road.
If mere SNOW puts you in a ditch…you have bigger problems than how many driven axles you have. If you mean GLARE ICE…nobody without studs should be messing with that!
And...what is the percentage in "better than good enough?"
That wasn’t the discussion. The whole point of that statement was a direct response to @VDCDriver when he said “4WD is good for only one thing–off-roading and/or getting out of a ditch.” He made no mention about how good or being good enough. If you want to start a new discussion…fine.
If mere SNOW puts you in a ditch...you have bigger problems than how many driven axles you have.
I agree. But that’s not the point of the statement is it. Snowy slippery conditions in 2wd (especially RWD)…and you’ll have to go much slower…make sure your rear tires aren’t fishtailing, keep it straight…all those things are much harder to do in 2wd then 4wd in snow. And I have seen situations where 4wd was the only thing keeping from a ditch…no matter how good of a driver you are…Your only option with 2wd is to stay home. And unfortunately in areas like upstate and extremely unpredictably lake effect snow…that’s not always an option. Sunny where you are…and sunny at your destination which is 15 miles away…but there’s a raging lake effect storm 5 miles between you and your destination that’s dumping up to a foot of snow.
Yep , a squall can change things in a hurry .
“I’ve probably driven in more snow in one year then you have your whole life.”
I don’t know enough about you to know if that is true, well I do know it is not true as I am old and I have driven a lot of years. I believe you live in New Hampshire and New Hampshire doesn’t have enough snow days in a year to be more than my accumulated total. Now if you live in Port Barrow, Alaska, maybe. No not even then.
“Of course you’ll find situations where LSD worked fine…but I’ve driven in situations where you’d be walking or calling a tow if you didn’t have 4wd.”
Again, I don’t think so, not if I have enough ground clearance and LSD. I do agree that you have to go slower with RWD, but you should when in limited traction situations. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve driven by 4WD stuck in a ditch, but most of them had passed me first. Their confidence in their abilities and their 4WD exceeded their capabilities.
A couple of years ago, I did some work on a wind farm in the mountains near Tehachapi. The dirt roads were very steep, curvy and muddy. They told me that I could not drive up those trails without 4WD. At the top of one of the mountains, the same guy looked at me and asked me how I got that thing up there. That thing was a rental 2010 Dodge Charger.
Oh, one more thing, I don’t live there now, but I’m from Vermont.
I believe you live in New Hampshire and New Hampshire doesn't have enough snow days in a year to be more than my accumulated total. Now if you live in Port Barrow, Alaska, maybe. No not even then.
Your right…but I grew up and learned how to drive in upstate NY in a small town with annual snow fall of well over 200" (most of it is Lake Effect snow). And I visit there often during the winter. The only years I never drove there was the 2 years I was in the Army…one being Vietnam.
Again, I don't think so, not if I have enough ground clearance and LSD.
I’ll bring you to the road our street was off of some winter day during one of our famous Lake Effect storms. You’ll can be the first to EVER make it down that windy hilly road without 4wd during one of the Lake Effect storms. People who live there won’t traverse it during the winter without 4wd. They’ll take the 5 mile route around it rather then risk getting stuck there.
@Barkydog ,if you had a true Torsen diff ,you would probably almost change your mind ,a regular LSD will not react correctly in some conditions ,if you could keep one wheel on a good traction surface ,a torsen would probably pull you right along .I cant see how they act so well and still allow differential action .The Guy that engineered these systems is famous for many novel but effective drive systems (even some for the military ) Cant think of his name right now ,starts with a G. If you really want traction ,check out the "Mattracks " site .
If you get a 4wd truck try to find one with has also a full time 4wd for inclement weather conditions. primitive 4wd does little for turning under power except sends you straight. Full time 4wd/awd will let you power through a turn and help regain traction also.
If sell privately 2wd had a lot less appeal then 4wd used.
^But “old-school” 4wd can do more than all-time 4wd ever will. So, you “slop” around corners a bit in slippery conditions–at least you can go and turn (stopping is another story). You really shouldn’t “need” 4wd except in conditions so slippery that locked diffs are a moot point.