Brand Loyalty

General Discussion
21

Yes@Keith. and the exponential growth in the complexity of automobiles was responsible for dragging me kicking and screaming into the computer age. In the early 90s the Mitchell and Motors manuals representatives each quoted me in excess of $2,000 to update my shop manuals which included wiring diagrams, vacuum diagrams and testing of computerized controls. A computer and a regularly updated set of CDs from Alldata was cheaper and much more convenient. Mitchell on Demand was superior in some areas so I had both Alldata and MOD of several years. Having updated technical service bulletins and factory recalls, etc., can save a shop enough to pay the cost of either system. But I still have the 1963 Chilton manual from 50 years ago and occasionally use it to answer questions here.

One of my grandfathers was born in 1880 and died in 1969. He was one of those who never believed that the moon walk was true. Ironically, my other grandfather was born in 1895 and died in 1982 and worked as a welder and mechanic building the Redstone rockets at Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville. Technological gains in their lifetimes was Jules Vernesque.

22

Sometimes, what looks like brand loyalty is often dealership loyalty.

For whatever reason like family , school, church, the owner , sales people, or how they’re treated and other connections, customers remain loyal to a dealership no matter the brand.
I’ve even seen customers remain loyal to their salesperson as they changed brands. Here in this small town the auto sales force seems to be made up of the same group of people. When we get a ‘‘new’’ sales person who came from the chevy place, they bring a customer list with them to buy Fords now ( and vice versa )

23

When MoPar went to the 5 year 50,000 mile warranty by dad suddenly became a Plymouth fan. He was amazed that a company was so sure of their product that they would repair it free for 5 years. When Ford and GM extended their warranties and the Lean Burn system caused some problems dad shifted his loyalties to Ford for a while. But he was never so loyal that he would pass up a good deal on a used car that could be resold for a few dollars more.

24
When MoPar went to the 5 year 50,000 mile warranty by dad suddenly became a Plymouth fan. He was amazed that a company was so sure of their product that they would repair it free for 5 years.

Did he become a Chevy Vega fan when Chevy put a 5year/50k warranty on the Vega (probably one of the most unreliable vehicles any manufacturer ever produced).

25

After 19yrs of excellent service we looked at another Mazda for my mom but at the time the Skyactiv engine option didn’t exist which possibly would have met her criteria. She bought a new Prius which met everything on her wish list. Certain makes will usually be considered (mostly Toyota/Honda/Mazda) but if the crop of 40mpg compacts had been on the market in the summer of 2009 when she decided to buy it would have been a harder decision.

26

@"ken green"‌ That concept of dealership loyalty is wild to me. The way I buy cars, and the way I preach to others to buy cars, is to find the same or almost the same car at a few different dealerships and go between them, getting them to lower their prices off of each other.

Although I have learned it is even simpler to just make up the number you want to pay and pretend the other dealership gave you that number.

27

I understand dealer loyalty. My Dad did business with a Desoto/Plymouth dealer who then became a Studebaker dealer when Chrysler dropped the Desoto. It was a small dealership, but my dad always seemed to get a good priced and the service department went of its way to take care of our cars. We also bought our appliances (washers, dryers, refrigerators) from the same store because this store had a great service department. Years later, when I had my own house, I traded with the store. I had purchased an older house and it had an air conditioner mounted through the wall. In the hottest days of the summer, the air conditioner gave out. I went to the appliance store. The service man came out figured out what air conditioning unit I needed. The service people came out while I was at work, installed the new unit and left the bill. They even had the vacuum cleaner out and cleaned up the carpet. I paid the bill and then got concerned that I hadn’t price shopped. A couple weeks later, I was walking through Sears and the same air conditioner under the Sears label had a carry-out price of $50 more than I paid for the Whirlpool (Whirlpool made Sears appliances) that was installed. Unfortunately, the big box stores eventually ran this appliance store out of business.
I’ll do my research on prices when I need a car, but when a dealer is local, gives good service and the price is what is consistent with my research, I’ll go to the local dealer. I might have saved $100 or so driving 60 miles away to a larger city to buy a car, but having a good relationship with a local dealer was worth it in the service I received.

28

There’s a few dealers that I would go back to again and others I tell people to avoid. My dad insisted on buying his Honda from the local dealer and wouldn’t even ask around at larger dealers farther north. He really liked his salesman at the local dealer so there was no desire to shop around to save more money than he already was. The smaller dealers often give you better service but also don’t have the selection/allocation of the big boys.

29

In the old days, if you went down to buy a Ford Custom or a Chevy Biscayne, you might see the other models in the showroom and decide you could afford a Fairlane or an Impala. Then maybe at some point you might like the Mercury or a Buick or Olds, and so on. With one manufacurer you could go from bare bones transportation to much more comfort. These days its just a jumbled mess with size and body style the predominant factor. Also people get used to particular characteristics of a manufacturer and takes a lot to move to something unfamiliar.

30

In 1995 my ex and I bought a Saturn SL1. It was a less-than-stellar car, with an engine that blew its headgasket before it made 100,000 miles. We were divorced by then, but my kids called the car a “piece of junk” and told me of its troubles. The headgasket blew again a few years later, but the car was falling apart by then anyway according to the kids. During that period, I had my '89 Toyota pickup that was piling on mile after mile, year after year, with no major problems. Yet, she went out and traded it for another Saturn. She swears by Saturns.

I’ll never understand why someone who has owned a car that didn’t hold up often still remains loyal to that brand. Yet I’ve seen mountains of evidence over the years that there’re far more powerful forces at work in compelling a person to buy a particular car than logic.

31

@the same mountainbike

I’ll never understand why someone who has owned a car that didn’t hold up often still remains loyal to that brand.

Because some people realize that literally every manufacturer makes lemons and one example out of hundreds of thousands doesn’t mean every car that manufacturer makes is a lemon. For example suppose there’s a restaurant to like go to regularly, and you’ve gone to that restaurant over a hundred time, and each time you’ve had no problems. But on the 105th time you go there, they get your order wrong and the service is slow. Do you immediately swear off the restaurant and vow to never go there again because one time out of a hundred and five times your experience wasn’t perfect? I wouldn’t. ‌

32

@FoDaddy,

I think I’d adjust your analogy slightly.

Let’s say that on my 105th visit to my favorite restaurant, instead of getting my order wrong (which is a simple mistake), they give me a miserable case of food poisoning (which indicates a more serious problems with their systems for handling food). No matter how much I previously liked that restaurant, I would probably never go back.

33

“I’ll never understand why someone who has owned a car that didn’t hold up often still remains loyal to that brand. Yet I’ve seen mountains of evidence over the years that there’re far more powerful forces at work in compelling a person to buy a particular car than logic.”

+1, mountainbike
The best example of this behavior is my weird former boss.
Despite multiple transmission failures and other serious problems with his 2-3 year old Chevy, and despite virtually having to live at the Buick dealership because of the recurring problems with several Buicks, this guy continued to buy nothing but GM products. When I suggested that he might want to take a look at…perhaps…a Crown Victoria or a Grand Marquis, his answer was, “Oh no! Those Fords & Mercurys just don’t hold up as well as GM cars!”

“Let’s say that on my 105th visit to my favorite restaurant, instead of getting my order wrong (which is a simple mistake), they give me a miserable case of food poisoning (which indicates a more serious problems with their systems for handling food). No matter how much I previously liked that restaurant, I would probably never go back.”

I agree completely, Whitey
In my case, there was a small neighborhood Chinese restaurant that was very far from being a gourmet destination, but the food was predictably decent, the place was very close to my house, and the prices were pretty reasonable. One night, several hours after eating there, I had an…explosive…situation in the bathroom, and I had to keep returning to the bathroom for almost 12 hours with bouts of severe nausea and diarrhea. However, I assumed that something else–other than my dinner—was the problem, simply because I had never previously experienced a problem with their food.

Well, fast-forward a couple of months, and despite feeling fine before going to dinner, a meal at that little resto resulted in an identical replay of my earlier illness. Belatedly, I realized that the food-handling procedures and/or the freshness of their food was the real problem, and I resolved to never again set foot in that establishment.

I might be a slow learner, but I am educable…

34

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”

Fodaddy, I followed the statement you quoted with the following:
“Yet I’ve seen mountains of evidence over the years that there’re far more powerful forces at work in compelling a person to buy a particular car than logic.”

Fact is, people who remain loyal to a brand despite having been burned, in many cases more than once, do so because what compels people to buy a particular car is a complex mix of reasons. Style, good advertising, a sense that “the devil I know is better than the devil I don’t know”, a sense of security knowing what to expect, influence of respected people in one’s life, a lot of reasons. To say that “well, this one’s a clunker but I’ll try again. Perhaps I just got a bad one.” is, IMHO folly. If you keep doin’ what you’re doin’ (buying the same brand) you can expect to keep gettin’ what you’re gettin’. I have no intention of making excuses for poor design and/or quality by the car’s manufacturer.

I’ll also add that there are many who think that recalls, warranty work, rattles and shakes, and other problems are just part of car ownership even in a new car. They see nothing wrong with that level of quality. I thought that way until I bought my first Toyota. I could not believe the difference.

It’s perfectly okay and understandable to be loyal to a brand after getting a clunker in that make. It’s okay to be motivated by the things I mentioned above, or the many other reasons one buys a car. But I believe it’s self-deluding to excuse poor design and/or quality by a car manufacturer by simple saying “well, everyone makes mistakes”.

I’m motivated by quality and reliability. My background orients me that way. I choose from among the manufacturers with reputations for reliability and longevity. I feel that to do otherwise is “bucking the odds”. Others choose what they do for other reasons. I support their right to do so. There are millions of great and intelligent people out there who have zero knowledge of or interest in the data.

35

Identifying with a brand is a tricky thing. We often don’t know why we do it. I’m motivated by quality and reliability too, but there are other forces at work, both known and unknown. For example, I’ve always felt Hyundai was trying to capitalize on Honda’s success by having a similar name and similar logo, and even though they make good cars, I just don’t identify with their brand.

The best example of branding I can think of Harley-Davidson. There are many men and women walking around with H-D’s logo tattooed on their bodies. For goodness sake, they’ve managed to get their customers to become living billboards, and it all started when their motorcycles were crap. H-D makes better products now, but they’re also competing with other American motorcycle companies (like Victory and Indian), all while selling H-D t-shirts, motorcycle boots, and other merchandise that is all made in China, and they’re selling them to people who still consider H-D the only true American motorcycle company. If you want to do a case study of branding success, H-D is a perfect model. I’m often amazed at how often I see pickup trucks and cars with H-D stickers on them. It’s like they’re advertising, “Yeah, I own a Harley, but I don’t ride it often.” I’ll never understand how anyone can have that kind of loyalty for a corporation without feeling like a lemming.

36

You make and excellent point, Whitey, we often don’t know why we prefer a particular brand. History would show that as hard as marketing researchers try, they don’t really always know either.

H-D is an excellent example. It seems like no matter what they do, they have a hard core following of loyalists that swear by them. I’ve even read that they once took the shake out of their engines and the loyalists didn’t like it, so they put it back in.

Coke, on the other hand, relied on brand loyalty to switch to “New Coke”. It’s now studied in grad programs at prestigious universities as one of the biggest business blunders of all time. They never recovered the lost market share. I personally think they exacerbated the situation by trying to replace the old Coke with “Classic Coke” but with less expensive high-fructose corn syrup instead of cane sugar. In recent years people like myself that grew up with the cane sugar formula and had discontinued drinking Coke altogether have discovered that the cane sugar formula is still used in Mexico and have been buying Mexican Coke. Of course we’re not drinking as much of it as we might be had we not stopped altogether.

37

mountain, I occasionallybuy what I call “Mexican pepsi” myself. whether Mexican pepsi or coke they are more syrupy, thicker and have a different feel when drinking. I like them

38

Hey TSM, I think I saw the original formula being marketed again! I was in a local Market Basket and they had the real sugar version for sale. The packaging was emblazoned with the fact it was “real sugar”. I was very tempted to buy some to relive my youth but managed to resist. Now I may have to go get some…

39

brand loyaly - non automotive ;

Back in the day, your Coke, Pepsi, Nehi, Royal Crown and all their flavors truly could be slightly differnt from region to region as the local distributors were in fact bottling onsight from syrup and sode shipped in by the tanker load. Their interpretation of the recipe resulted in regional differences that many people knew of and sweared allegience to.
– My local bottling companies are now just warehouses full of pre-packaged products.

Home appliances are in fact made on the same assembly lines all the way down to the last cover panel and label with different ‘‘brand’’ names on them . Kenmore, Whirlpool, Maytag, who is which ? Who knows ? Online research these days reveals those answers which used to be a trade secret. I am brand loyal to my LG appliances and have not ever researched to see which others are the same.

Consumer elecronics is another ‘‘brand loyal’’ product area that has many of the same identical internal components yet buyers will only buy ‘‘their’’ brand.

40

TT, that’s the Mexican Coke. It’ll have a little stick on additional ingredient label to comply with U.S. FDA requirements. I pick it up at Market Basket myself.