One other wild card - a China melt down. If they stumble oil prices could tumble.
@texases Yes, China is already slowing its INCREASES from year to year. Years ago China produced enough oil to be self-sufficient. Not anymore. Most experts forecast very slow growth for Chinese oil imports in the future. They are frantically drilling in the South China Sea to add to domestic production, although some of these locations can be argued are not Chinese.
One import the Chinese will increase vastly will be liquefied natural gas (LNG) as they want to reduce their coal use for power generation. This country is virtually polluting itself out of existence. Don’t go to China if you have the slightest breathing problems!
A meltdown of the Chinese economy is unlikely since the free market only powers about half the economy. There is a massive infrastructure deficit and the country is poised to become a major car exporter! This might take a while.
common sense answer: Not that it’s enough to really matter when (retired) I now drive substantially less than 10,000 miles per year. There are of course other factors than Winter gas formulation such as richer mixture on start up but I get plus 2 mpg average on “summer gas”. As far as climate change: It can change significantly no matter what us mere humans do (with the exception of global thermonuclear war resulting in near perpetual Winter where the planet could eventually recover but we would be gone). Climate change is mostly due to changes in ocean currents. Two years ago we experienced the first single digit Winter temps since I was a little kid in the 1950s. Last week we had mid to high 90s when normal highs are less than 70. That has happened several times over many decades before. Todays high 68F.
Here’s what EPA says, from fueleconomy.gov:
“The sale of 85 octane fuel was originally allowed in high-elevation regions—where the barometric pressure is lower—because it was cheaper and because most carbureted engines tolerated it fairly well. This is not true for modern gasoline engines. So, unless you have an older vehicle with a carbureted engine, you should use the manufacturer-recommended fuel for your vehicle, even where 85 octane fuel is available.”
I can also tell you that I have never followed that advice since my first fuel injected vehicle in 1991. I have always used 85 octane with no negative effects in Colorado or any other areas that offer it, when traveling or living there.
As for ethanol free gasoline, I can get 87 octane for a premium of 30 cents per gal at a local station. Some QuikTrips/Conoco/phillips stations around here sell ethanol free premium 91 or 93 octane at a much higher cost. Ethanol free is more prevalent in western Kansas, but the premium is about the same.
Robert Gift: If the fuel station is selling 85 octane it is appropriate for the elevation (which I have purchased at slightly less than 4,000 ft.) If you filled your tank with 85 octane and drove to a lower altitude a modern EFI vehicle will adjust.
Barkydog: I remember 2 Shell stations less than 2 blocks from each other on opposite sides of the street and on my way to or from work. One was always 2 cents more per gallon??? Sometimes I would use the more expensive one. I could use any pump I wanted, no waiting!
irlandes: I understand your concern for gasoline quality. I have always used regular in Mexico. Of course it was rental vehicles. Of course the decision was what brand Pemex or? Oh right…
Now volcanoes are something to worry about. They can cause winter in summer in no time looking back at history. We should be trying to cover them with netting or something to catch the ash when they explode. Volcanoes yeah, Freon not so much.
Barkydog: Smart cars and Minis advertising decent fuel mileage but requiring premium. No thank you.
Robert Gift: Ethanol is introduced to reduce fuel mileage therefore increasing per gallon taxes. It is year round and here to stay unless we hang all the politicians.
Shoot all the lawyers, that will take care of 90% of the politicians.
On the wholesale market, the price spread between regular and premium is .39 - .40 cents a gallon…
On the wholesale market, the price spread between regular and premium is .39 - .40 cents a gallon...
That’s weird since some companies have only a 20 cents spread
Gasoline pricing is a black art and extremely opportunistic. Refineries cannot exactly forecast the various demands of diesel, regular or premium, and the product yield can be varied to some extent but often there are unexpected over and under production situations.
So there is a lot of horse trading between companies to balance the demand. Propane is wholesaling a 5.0 cents a pound here, but I still need to pay $20 to get a 20 lb cylinder filled. The demand for propane is vey inelastic.; you don’t run your barbecue or motorhome more because propane is cheap.
The official forecast for the US is very high gasoline demand for summer driving. Many Americans are staying “home” and domestic driving is expected to reach record highs,. That bodes well for both regular and premium demand, so don’t expect gas wars this summer.
And very little of this has to do with the movements in the price of foreign crude oil.
As mentioned before the oil business is really 3 businesses; 1)Exploration & production, 2) refining, and 3) marketing. Although some large oil companies do all three, there is no real direct connection as those businesses are run by different vice presidents each with their own business plan. Those divisions sell to each other so to speak. And the production side has often many customers outside the company.
Many majors are getting out of the marketing altogether; In France over 50% of gas is sold by supermarkets and department stores!
To Robert Gift- I notice that no one has addressed the question of 85 octane fuel being ok for your car. The short answer is yes it is.
An owners manual that call for 87 octane is not asking for premium gas. 87 octane is regular for most of the country.
The reason they sell 85 octane above 5000 feet is that the air is less dense so even though the compression ratio is unchanged, the pressure in the cylinder is reduced, requiring less octane.
Should you descend below 5000 feet, the knock sensor will tell the computer to alter the timing to prevent engine damage.
Yes. Thank you. O2 remains 21% but the air is less dense.
Difficult to justify 87 octane when it is 20¢ more per gallon.
If 87 octane produced 9% or greater increase in miles/gallon, I’d buy it.
Have never noticed any pinging or knocking. But I always accelerate gently.
One time was heading up a steep grade against a strong headwind. Wind noise and siren covered pinging - if any.