No kidding. Unless I’m asking a regular mechanic to work on something weird, like a jet engine-swapped MR2 (it exists, look it up, it’s insane) I figure if I have to give them a service manual for a repair, they’re probably not the one I want to be going to. And of course, I’m not going to ask a regular mechanic to work on something weird like that, so it’ll never come up.
I really like his “I don’t have time to do this, so I’m gonna farm it out to you and then micromanage the daylights out of you because you’re stupid and are going to rip me off” approach.
I do. When I bought my Mustang, I inquired about the price of a Ford Racing exhaust system (Ford branded, but made by Borla, warranty friendly). They initially quoted me $2200 as the the out the door cost. I knew that was an inflated price given what the exhaust system sells for online, and what the dealer’s shop rate was. So I declined. When I got home with the new car. I ordered the exhaust system myself, and then scheduled an appointment at the dealer for the following Saturday to have it installed. I ended up saving literally hundreds of dollars because did my research beforehand and was willing to make a few clicks. Same story with my Ford Racing (Barton) short shifter.
I can only imagine that most established, financially successful shop owners have through the years developed a basic game plan that keeps good customers coming back and providing them with a profit margin to support a comfortable income for themselves and their employees and makes it a point to stick to the game plan. I guess it could be said that for me I could be somewhat flexible on many issues but for the most part business was done my way and no one was forced to put up with me if they felt I was unfair. If the money was right I installed customer provided parts but that was rarely the case. I do recall occasionally dealing with people who wanted to deal with me as though I were their employee with no opportunity to work elsewhere. Usually such relationships were very short.
Exactly. The customer may choose whether or not I (or this shop) fix their car. But the customer may not choose how I fix their car or what I will charge. That decision is mine and mine alone.
Well not to give away any secrets here but most well run shops have a parts cost approx 20% to 25% of the final repair price. Funny how the steak house can have a rib eye on the menu without breaking it down into parts and labor but we in the auto industry can’t do that.
A head gasket is not an expensive part, but the labor to replace it is I can think of many parts that are quite expensive and take little time to replace.
You can run your business however you see fit. If the parts are only 20 or 25% of the final repair price, I doubt I would complain.
But maybe you need an actual example to better understand so here goes: The fuel pump on my Nissan, is not available as a complete assembly, instead all of the components have to be bought separately. The pump alone from the dealer costs $490, Napa sells one for $360, RockAuto and Amazon sell a reputable brand one for $70. Which one do I want to pay a 40% parts markup on?
Or shall we consider the oil cooler ( a not unheard of part failing on a Nissan). The parts dept says its not serviceable and must be replaced as a unit that costs a bit over $600, however the European service manual shows the gasket in it can be replaced, and thanks to an Australian we were able to find out that two 0 rings from an older Pathfinder were a perfect fit and fixed the leaking issue. I bought the gaskets needed and brought that otherwise unavailable page from the service manual with the needed torque values. 3 years later still not leaking. But I did spend over $7 on one nitrile gasket from the dealer that you could buy in bulk for 5 cents each.
I appreciate you deal with all sorts of clients with differing degrees of knowledge about their car. You need to appreciate that some of us actually know a bit about our vehicles. I appreciate you want to and need to make money. Appreciate that I want to spend less money and save more. There should be a middle ground where we meet, and we can deal with each other respectfully.
I hope you will at least acknowledge that there are shops that take advantage of their clients’ ignorance and that there are places that take shortcuts and do less than satisfactory work.
‘’ But the customer may not choose how I fix their car or what I will charge. That decision is mine and mine alone.’
Really? I thought I needed to approve your work order? I understand refusing to do unsafe practices, but if I decide I want to upgrade a component or have additional work carried out, or negotiate a bit off your quote that is my right.
Look I really do not want to generalize, but there are some bad and some dumb mechanics out there. And of course, the fact that not everyone in a shop working on your car is actually a certified mechanic, is proof that not everyone has the same knowledge base stored in their head. Not all wheel lugs or wheel bearings, for example, use the same torque settings. Over tighten and you can damage things.
Any work I bring you is going to be because I either do not have the time or the specialty tool needed. It’s not going to be the lion’s share of your business and you are not going to see me every 3 months, but I will add to your sales total, be loyal over the years, and I will probably even write a good review for your business and recommend you to friend’s who ask me about automotive stuff and need a mechanic.
I don’t think that’s what asemaster meant. It is HIS decision whether he wants to change a waterpump with his left hand or his right hand, from the top or from underneath. That IS his decision to make. It is also his decision to make as to what he wants to charge the customer, whether the customer likes it or not.
I’ve had a few I have charged very high amounts for labor, in the hope I’ll never see them again.
Guys I do not think providing the relevant pages from the factory service manual and asking that you respect the torque values and use a torque wrench is micromanaging. Do you not realize that your refusal to acknowledge the relevance of what I am providing and asking makes me doubt your professionalism?
If I were a professional mechanic, I would be insulted to be told that. That being said, I have had occasion to call to question what a mechanic did to my vehicle:
A couple of winters ago, at the time of my annual inspection, the water pump was found to be leaking and the parking brakes not working. Being winter in upstate NY, I decided not to perform the work myself. The day after the work was done, I found leaking coolant. All 4 radiator hose clamps were loose. I went back to the shop to report the situation (the guy who did the work was new to the shop) and get my coolant topped off. He had also pulled the axles to replace the parking brake hardware (not actually necessary), and refilled the differential. I asked the office manager to look up what lubricant was used as it wasn’t listed on my receipt. Sure enough, he had put in the wrong stuff. He came out of the shop to talk to me and came up with a BS excuse. He asked if I wanted it changed. Well, duh! Finally, several months later, the parking brake stopped working. When I checked, I found that he had routed one of the new cables improperly and it was rubbing against the tire, which wore through the outer jacket and allowing the cable to rust and seize.
And it seems that the issue has become a “tempest in a tea cup,” so to speak. Like fast food joints there seems to be plenty of choices for auto repair so we can enjoy what we prefer and avoid the rest.
You’re wrong. Full stop. You’re dealing with a mechanic. They’ve been trained in this. They know to respect torque values, and they know to use a torque wrench. If you suspect your mechanic does not, then you shouldn’t be letting him work on your car.
Your approach is insulting. I don’t know what you do for a living, but I’m pretty confident that if some yahoo came in off the street with no qualifications to do your job whatsoever, and started instructing you in intricate detail on how to do your job, and then tried to hand you an instruction manual for doing your job, you’d rightfully tell him to kiss off. That the mechanic isn’t doing this to you simply means he’s a lot more gracious to you than you are to him.
I’m good at my job. The only people who “provide relevant information” about how I do my job are in my industry and do or have done my job, and even then, they’d better be very good at it or I’m ignoring them. I’m certainly not going to listen to some dip who isn’t even in my field trying to teach me how to do the job that I’m already very good at.
I had the glass fall out of the right hand rear view mirror on my 1978 Oldsmobile when it was 25 years old. I went to the Oldsmobile dealer’s parts department and they ordered a new glass for the mirror. The cost was over $35. When I went to replace the mirror glass and removed the backing paper, the adhesive was so old it wouldn’t stick. I took the car to the Chrysler/Plymouth body shop. The manager said a glass person was coming that afternoon to replace a windshield and he would have it fixed for me.
When I went back to get the car, the manager of the body shop asked what I had paid for the replacement glass. When I told him, he said “That’s outrageous. You had to pay way too much. Our man would have cut a piece of glass and replaced it for half the cost.This job is on the house”.
I can read shop manuals and do repairs. However, a mechanics experience is the important thing. I seek out reputable shops and let them worry about getting the parts and how to install them.
Sure it is. If you’re mechanically inclined as you say you are, then you should know many experienced mechanics often better ways then the service manual. Example - 80’s Accord - Service manual says to replace the starter you need to disconnect the axle. That the NOT the best way. Many mechanics figured out that it’s much easier to remove the a few parts on the firewall to be a lot easier and safer then dropping the axle.
Have you actually found a mechanic like the one you’re looking for? If so…let us know so we can avoid that idiot.
May I ask the mechanics or garage owners who are taking exception to some of what I am saying, what percentage of their clients actually invest in buying the service manual for their vehicle? I print out the relevant pages and leave them with the parts I am supplying. I have made my argument if you do not appreciate it, or the specifics I have described, there is not much more I can say.
Are you really insulted and have no idea why I am asking, if I ask you to not overfill the engine oil or to fill my new tires to a specific pressure? In my 35+ years of getting cars serviced, I have had great experiences and bad experiences, I now try and avoid the later.
If your mechanic is so incompetent that he needs the customers to print out the directions for him…then maybe you should find a new mechanic. What type of repairs are these? I’ll bet for every repair you’ve had done by a COMPETENT mechanic they’ve done 100+ of those exact repairs. I can’t believe that this repair is so exotic that he needs directions from a customer.
If I was a mechanic - I’d be insulted. You hire a mechanic for their expertise over yours. If you can’t trust the mechanic for the simplest of tasks, then find a good mechanic you trust. I’d tell you to take your business elsewhere. And if the mechanic doesn’t tell you that…then he’s desperate for business and I wouldn’t want that guy working on my vehicle.
I’ve run into a few Mr. Quinlans in the past and in my opinion they’re best avoided. I do things my way and I don’t need or want anyone breathing down my neck and telling me how things should be done.
As for the comments about Nissan and the oil cooler I will say this. It is not the dealer’s fault this occurs. The parts listing will show a unit only. This is the only way they can get this item is in it’s entirety. This is true of all makes and models.
I don’t necessarily like it either but that’s the way it is. Complaints should be directed to the auto manufacturer; not the dealer.
When I hire to have a job done, I want the person doing the job from start to finish including supplying the parts and materials. Years ago, I did business with a local appliance store. I had moved into an older house that had a through the wall air conditioner. The air conditioner compressor went out. I went to my local appliance store that had a service department. I talked to the service technician. He came to my house, figured out what unit would be best and made arrangements to come install the unit while I was at work. When I came home for lunch, the servicemen were just finishing up. They even had my vacuum cleaner out and were sweeping up. A couple weeks later, I was walking through Sears. Sears had air conditioning units on sale. The air conditioner identical to the one I had installed except that it said Kenmore instead of Whirlpool, was $20 more for the carryout price than I paid for the unit with installation.
The locally owned appliance stores are gone in my area. Last January, our dishwasher quit functioning after 29 years. I went to three big box stores that had one available. The other two had display models but would have to order one. However, the store where I bought the new dishwasher contracted out the installation and I could choose and make contract with the installer. I just had the machine delivered. When I looked at what it would take to install the machine (I think the house was built around the dishwasher–the copper water supply went right to the inlet) I called the plumber who does our work. I prefer the days when I didn’t buy the appliance and then find an installer, but could arrange to have everything done.
I am the same way about my vehicles. If I am not going to do the repair myself, I want the shop to obtain the part and install it. I don’t want to use my time to chase down a part. When I was working, time was money. I was certainly willing to have the shop mark up the price of the part for their time in obtaining the part. I also learned to drive common vehicles where parts and service are readily available. When I was in graduate school, I had a Rambler and the town had no Rambler dealer. A snap ring broke in the manual transmission damaging the synchronizer and main drive gear. The local transmission shop had to order the parts from a dealer 50 miles away. I did without the car for 10 days. In my opinion, if you value your time, drive a common car and have a good shop take care of the car.