Its not unheard of for a parts store to ship the wrong part. It happens. I can even think of an example or two for my vehicle where a national chain has the wrong part diagram for the lighting section of my car. Parts guys also routinely confuse the X Trail with the X Terra, and some data bases do not include the X trail. My vehicle shares a number of parts with an Altima. Valve cover is the same, but you need to do detective work to learn this. List price for it is 4 times what Nissan charges for the American built one.
While it could happen, I have never provided the wrong part or a defective part. I consult factory part diagrams and do part searches based upon the OE part Number. I buy name branded stuff from good sources and avoid no name Ebay parts.
Yup I would like that better than a hidden 40% parts markup over retail.
For me, my time is valuable. I donât want to spend my time chasing down parts. When I was still working, I would make the appointment, take the car to the shop and let them take it from there.
Even when I was a graduate student and money was tight, my time was even more valuable. Study and class time were how I needed to invest my time. Whether or not I could save money by supplying my own parts was irrelevant.
Heh heh. Iâm guilty. When the wife first bought her Olds Aurora, I wanted to put a new serpentine belt on it. This is not an easy job because you have to thread the belt through about a 1 inch hole. I had the factory manual so I did provide that to the shop for reference. They said they were glad to have but maybe they were just humoring me, I dunno. I knew it was complicated though and wanted to be helpful. This was years ago and not sure if they had Alldata back then. I also did it when my Riv broke down and was in a little shop 200 miles away. He was having a real problem diagnosing the thing so I faxed pages of the factory manual to him to help. Still cost me $500, cash, no credit card. I dunno, I always figured itâs a team effort to keep these things on the road.
I really think there are a lot of shops that would not want you for a customer
Nobody likes to be told how to do their job or having somebody tell them they donât trust them to do it the right way
How dare you insinuate that the mechanic wouldnât look up the proper procedure . . . by supplying the pages from the service manual you are pretty much saying âI donât think you were planning on doing the job the correct wayâ
By insisting the mechanic uses a torque wrench you are again insinuating the same thing
What do you think would happen if I went to my dentist and told her how to do her job?
Hereâs what would probably happen . . . sheâd probably inform me that I should find another dentist
And the big loser would be ME. My dentist has a thriving business in a really nice town. Sheâs obviously very successful and doesnât need customers who are openly distrustful of her
On the flip side, the way you talk to shops is indicative of your attitude towards them
Ever thought about that . . . ?!
Nobody is marking parts up 40% over retail. Retail is the markup from their cost that commercial businesses charge their retail customers. In the furniture business it used to be 300% of their cost.
What has happened with auto parts, mostly with the internet is that consumers can now buy the parts as cheap or cheaper than the auto shops, but the shops have not changed
their markup since I was a child⊠A long time ago.
Donât forget, we are not talking about a mechanic working out of his home garage. We are talking about a business with either huge capital investment costs or even bigger financing costs. Those casts p;us operating costs, utilities, taxes dees and permits, insurance, wages and fringe benefits all have to be paid before the business owner sees a dime and he and his familu have the same expenses anyone else does so his âwagesâ should be accounted for the business is actually making a profit.
The day a business owner cannot make more of a profit by going through the headache of running a business rather than just sitting back and investing his money is the day he should stop investing in a business and employing people and go fishing instead.
My friend a discussion in person and me trying write here are not the same thing. I am not used to dealing with mechanics with such thin skin. Seems you want to patronize your customers. Understand I am not hiring you or another because I am incapable of doing the job, but rather because I have decided I do not have the time. There is nothing wrong with providing hard copies of the relevant service manual pages, that the mechanic may or may not have access to. And for those who are unaware you can ask a mechanic to not use an impact wrench to fasten.
Regarding parts many of you keep using examples were the price difference is minimal. In my case I dont want to pay you a 40% markup on a NAPA price for parts that are $400 to $800 or more. If I am paying you a commission to do the shopping, I would like you to be doing something more than buying at the most expensive place so that you make more commission.
I will try to be more sensitive in the future.
PS: I have a business and sell to businesses. I know something about cheap people who have no clue how to value expertise, or who insist you have to cut your prices.
My interest here, is simply a traditional way of doing businesses by Garages is being upended and I was curious how some plan to deal with it. Denial seems to be the big reaction, and I see that other than taking offense no one is really dealing with it.
Fortunately, I and others have found good mechanics who will work with us.
I will add that I think most garages need to negotiate a better deal with their suppliers. Its gotten that I can go to my local NAPA and the price he quotes me at the counter is lower than he will sell to a local garage after the magic words ââ Can you do any better on the priceââ. In contrast there is another not far that is a good independent who I know provides a 20% discount to commercial accounts, and will not provide that to retail clients.
Of course there is the sunk cost into the business, and the fact that it is not so easy for someone to sell rapidly or wrap up their business. Sometimes you have to work through a slow patch or down cycle as well. If you are starting you need to grow your way to sufficient profits. Headaches are involved one way or the other.
Actually, I donât have thin skin
Iâm actually enjoying these postings . . . despite the fact I completely disagree with you
From what Iâve been reading . . . you seem to fit the bill. By handing the mechanics pages from the service manual, to list just one example
I agree with that. That being said, once a mechanic, shop owner, etc. recognizes what those headaches are, steps should be taken to reduce the headaches. No offense, but you would qualify as a headache to many mechanics and shop owners. So . . . as Iâve already stated . . . many shops wouldnât want to deal with you, and they can afford to not gain you as a customer.
What I really donât understand is this . . .
you clearly know how things work, in regards to bringing your car to a shop to be repaired. Yet you insist on âbucking the systemâ . . . do you really think theyâre all going to bend over backwards to accommodate you, when itâs easier and more profitable to just not gain you as a customer.
Wouldnât it be easier if you âdecide you do in fact have the timeâ . . . ?
Rearrange your schedule, whatever it takes, and do the job yourself, in your driveway or the garage
That way you control everything . . . who you buy the parts from, how much you pay, when you will perform the repairs, and so on. And then you can pat yourself on the back for a job well done, and youâll stop complaining about us
I think this discussion could go on forever and never reach any sort of agreement. I really donât think shops in my area (besides the dang Toyota dealer) mark up the parts they install very much. I assume the shops can buy parts a little cheaper than retail since they buy in bulk relative to the retail customer. Then they charge me at or near retail price for the parts and for the labor and/or diagnostics. Thatâs the way it should work in my mind and in a perfect world, anyway. No way Iâm knowingly agreeing to paying 30-40% over retail for the parts and paying for the labor. I just donât think thatâs the norm around here.
That is correct
but Iâm still having a good time reading the comments and interacting with @Michael_Quinlan
Just because we donât agree doesnât mean the conversation has no value
I talked to my recently retired dentist this morning and asked him if anyone ever brought their own gold in and what kind of a discount they got if they did. I have some gold hanging around and thought maybe when I look for a new dentist it would be something to ask. He kinda wiped his brow and said he was happy to be retired.
I do that more often than not. And I am not complaining, as I said I have two garages I am friendly with. I appreciate that the original poster probably has a good shop, and does not try to mislead clients but I know for a fact that not everyone in his profession is so ethical.
I like things being done to a certain standard whereas some mechanics like to take shortcuts. Again quite OK, but not what I want to pay for.
May I suggest you read an article that appeared recently in the Atlantic regarding modern dentistry and its business practices. There are some outright crooks who prey on their patients.
For what itâs worth your dentist will happily implant diamonds in your teeth that you provide. I suspect the profit on amalgam fillings is far higher than it would be if using gold or lead.
I think most people in most professions are happy to retire at some point. Most dentists or Vets for that matter, who retired 15 years ago worked in a very different climate. Then it was a caring profession, now itâs a practice that seeks maximum profitability and to financialize every act. You can thank fancy marketing consultants who sell them practice building seminars for that.
I guess if one knows what part to replace maybe if the shop is willing, you can supply your own part. However, suppose you misdiagnose the problem and installing the new part doesnât fix the car. When I was in high school, my parents had a 1954 Buick. It bucked badly up to 30 mph. I replaced the spark plugs, but it didnât make any difference. My dad was worried that the Buick might need a valve job because it had 80,000 miles on the odometer. I took it to the shop for him. While I was sitting in the waiting room, I saw the car being driven into s service bay. Five minutes later, the service manager called me back to the garage. The engine was running on the Buick. Do you see whatâs wrong with your car?" the mechanic asked. âNoâ, I replied. He then took a screwdriver, rested the tip on the cylinder head and brought the shank toward a spark plug. A spark jumped from the spark plug boot to the screwdriver". âNow do you see the problemâ? he asked. Of course the cause of the problem was obvious. The insulating boots over the ends of the spark plug wires were bad. I missed it because, for some reason, the Buicks back in those days, had metal covers over each bank of spark plugs. The experienced mechanic had seen enough Buicks to know the cause of the problem immediately. The total bill was $2.45. This was back in 1958.
My problem in buying parts to take to the shop is that if I misdiagnose the problem, bring in the part, the part is replaced but the problem still exists, I am out the labor charge for work that didnât need to be done.
Iâm a mechanic and I donât have thin skin. Years of exposure to solvents, grease and brake cleaner have thickened it quite well. It seems in this discussion itâs the customer with the thin skin, taking offense when being told âNo, thank youâ to a business proposition.
If you go into a steak house, look at the menu, and donât like the prices, do you simply leave and go somewhere else or do you take up a discussion with the management about how they arrived at their price structure? Despite appearing haphazard to you, the shopâs pricing structure is actually quite carefully thought out and implemented.
In this day and age, any shop that calls itself an auto service facility will have wireless laptops and tablets at every work station for every mechanic loaded with Alldata, Mitchell, Identifix, and access to factory service manuals when needed. If a customer needs to bring in service info, the customer has chosen the wrong shop. Exceptions exist of course, I was happy when a customer brought in a vacuum diagram for his 56 Lincoln.
I find the dental profession in general to operate that way. Constantly scheduling cleaning/fluoride/exams/Xrays every 6 months when no such service is needed. Recommending expensive work when it is of no benefit to the customer. I visit the dentist every 2-3 years and have no ill effects. I have been told for 25 years to have my wisdom teeth extracted. I have declined every additional service or treatment and have not had a new cavity since I was 17 years old.
It depends on the monthly purchase volume of each shop and the type of shop how much of a discount a dealer will offer on parts. It is likely that a typical small repair shop could not buy that catalytic converter for the price that the price-matching secretary agreed to in your case, most dealers donât offer the type of discount like the cut-throat on line dealers offer.
An independent repair shop is going to mark up the price to MSRP or greater which would be close to your original quote.
If and when I go into a steakhouse, I have many options other than being forced to order the most expensive item on the menu.
Again while your statement is true of most vehicles, mine was never sold in the US, and many Canadian garages who buy American software packages do not or did not have the X trail in their database. Last time I had a problem with my oil cooler, I used the European factory manual to have its gaskets replaced. For some reason, this info was not in the dealerâs version, and their parts dept insisted you needed to replace the cooler for 600. I found the proper gaskets through an Australian enthusiast forum and ordered them through Nissan for $35. My mechanic would not guarantee it would work, but he followed the specs and 3 years later itâs still not leaking. ( It was January-- I am far more likely to hire a mechanic during the coldest months). I called Nissan head office to point out the missing info, and supposedly they were going to issue a bulletin to Canadian dealers
Look similar to dentistry the vast majority of mechanics are fairly honest and competent, sadly some are not. And in my over 40 years of car ownership I can think of instances of obvious incompetence, and padded bills. As with anything buyer beware.
Last thought. I donât think the steakhouse analogy is a good one, and in any case most restaurants have a food cost of approx 30% of the menu price. Dining out is for most an entertainment expense rather than a repair purchase.
To me a better analogy is hiring an electrician or a plumber. In either case you can supply the fixtures, or hot water tank you want installed. You can also buy through them usually if you so desire.
I know several electricians and plumbers who do allow this. And their attitude is the same as mechanics who allow you to bring their own parts. Weâll install it, but wonât warranty the part. They have no idea the quality of the part. Especially an electrical part. Is that circuit breaker NEW or USED? Who knows.
Also electricians and plumbers around here do NOT buy their parts retail and then mark up from there. Same as the mechanics around here. Their marked up price is as good or better then what I can get at places like Home Depot or Lowes, and usually better quality. Most consumers do not have access the same materials electricians and plumbers have. They are trade only items. Simple example - InSinkErator makes line of Garbage Disposals. There are certain (higher end) models from InSinkErator that can only be bought from a plumbing supply house. And unless youâre a licensed plumber you canât buy from them. And there are MANY MANY items in many different construction trades.