To get back on topic, it’s not unusual now for a clutch friction disk to last 200,000 miles. A manual trans can last indefinitely. An automatic will fail sooner or later but it will fail.
Over the years I have repaired a very few manual transmissions and replaced many, usually with salvage parts. If highway driven by an experienced adult some might last a million miles or more but like all machinery there are extenuating circumstances and exceptions. A dragging clutch will take out the syncronizers sooner or later and many drivers will continue to drive with the gears crunching until it is too late. A slowly leaking seal may not be noticed until the gear whine is investigated. And a failing mount can interfere with the complete engagement of gears and quickly take out a hub. Although I am a big fan of Ford trucks the aluminum case Ford 3 speed that was common on so many light duty trucks for over 20 years would rarely last 150k and the rebuilds never lasted 100k. The Mazda 5 speeds would break the shift collar without fail. Some Hondas, Escorts and Rabbits had problems with the shift lever brace and frustrated drivers trashed the transmissions fighting to find a gear. There are many other lesser problems but when a manual fails these days it is more expensive to repair than an automatic and automatics, when properly maintained, will usually outlast the car. Although I currently don’t own a manual that is unusual for me and I often find myself reaching for a shift lever or clutch when exiting the highway after a long drive. And if I run across a good deal on any popular car or truck with a manual I would certainly consider investing in it. I pass an old Scout on occasion and might make an offer on it.
"What kind of maintenance is required for your starter? Now you’ve really confused me."
Whitey
Hey, I am not the ome that confused you. That happened before we ever conversed.
Like the time you said that a V6 engine was so much heavier than a 4 cyl. that it negated the extra power. And the time that you said that Ford found out how to make a 4 cylinder run smoother by shortening the space between power strokes. Did you mean that the power strokes were less than 180 degrees apart?
Save the Manuals!
I have to say. I drove a automatic for 5 years, I"ve had my manual for just over 1 year. Never…ever…going back. I just get such a kick out of driving it, even in traffic. On those stop and go freeways, my car is like an iceberg…just chilling in the ocean of vehicles maintaining a steady speed at the top of 2nd or 1st gear…
I had an automatic go out on a car (1992 Ford Tempo…a car where mike in new hampshire should note…I had to replace the starter.) and the repairs were basically the value of the car…
I don’t “get a kick” out of driving manuals and will never, never go back to one.
Elly, Elly, Elly, it’s amusing you would dig up those old arguments rather than address the current point of contention. It’s a sad ploy, really, to dodge the question, and then bring up comments that vaguely resemble comments I made a long time ago, but missing qualifiers and taken out of context. Still, I will address your points:
Regarding the power of V6 vs. I4 issue, I included the qualifier of “all other things being equal,” which should include displacement. If you ignore the qualifier, yes, I was wrong, and after others pointed it out, I admitted, and admit now, that I was wrong since in the real world, all other factors won’t be equal. That was a long and contentious argument, and for the sake of argument, I admit I was mistaken. Fortunately, I learn from my mistakes. There, I was wrong, and I admit it.
Regarding making an I4 run smoother, I tried explaining the concept, but you proved incapable of understanding it. It’s clear you didn’t understand it because you got it wrong, AGAIN. What I said, was that back in the 1980s, when four cylinder engines were becoming more popular in cars, manufacturers tried to make them run smoother by increasing the idle speed. By increasing the idle speed, you shorten the time interval between the firing of spark plugs, and it makes the engine appear to run smoother. I never said anything about adjusting the timing of the engine, and never once used the phrase “power stroke.” That was something you fabricated based on your misunderstanding of what I said. I tried, repeatedly, to explain it, but you kept harping on the engine timing, in an effort to embarrass me, a ploy you seem to dredge up every time I prove you wrong in an unrelated thread. It’s sad and funny at the same time. I don’t know why you keep bringing this up like I created some kind of fantasy. It is merely your refusal to understand what I said, which I think is something that puts you in an unflattering light each time you bring it up.
Hopefully, now that I have given you a mea culpa for the whole “six cylinder” argument, which I consider ancient history, and AGAIN explained the “four cylinder” thing, we can put this to rest and stop digging it up every time you find yourself backed into a corner. Please, for the sake of civil discourse, let’s get back on topic.
What kind of maintenance do you perform on your starter? Have you considered upgrading to a “maintenance free” starter?
“the time interval between the firing of spark plugs, and it makes the engine appear to run smoother” If that is not a “power stroke” just what is it??
By the way a V6 engine has already done that, (shortened the interval between “the firing of the spark plugs”) Is speeding up the idle considered a "concept?"
I never did feel “backed into a corner” with any of your idiotic statements “.Regarding the power of V6 vs. I4 issue, I included the qualifier of “all other things being equal,” which should include displacement.”
There might be an I4 with equal displacement as a V6 but I don’t know many!! Most 4s run up to 2.5 liters while most V6s run from 3 liters to 4.3 liters. I would bet that a 2.5 V-6 would run smoother and have nore power than a 2.5 liter I-4 because of the reason mentioned above!!
And now Ford is bragging that their V6 has the power of a V8 with the economy of a V6. (I don’t believe it tho)
I agree with Whitey. Manuals are easier to maintain, cheaper to maintain, cheaper to repair, and more reliable than automatics. If you’re too lazy to shift gears, you should buy a case of Depends and teach your dog go fetch you beers from the fridge.
The Mazda MX-3 had a 1.8 L V6 for a minute.
Would have been more interesting and easier to service with RWD.
ron-man if you like to play with sticks, get some Tidley Winks!! I really am not that lazy, I just hate all that yanking and jerking around.
So you agree with Whitey that a V6 is so much heavier than a four that it negates the extra power and that Ford figured out how to make a I-4 run smoother by shortening the time between the “firing of the spark plugs”. And the firing of the spark plugs is not a “power Stroke”.
I thot Mazda had a 1.8 V6 once but also thot it might have been a mistake in printing.
Also, I said that a hand crank would require less maintainence than an electric starter. I have never done any maintainence on a starter, but I have replaced a few And they do rebuild them but I don’t think they rebuild hand cranks.
Whitey admitted he was wrong about that first thing, so I don’t know why you think he STILL thinks that. I do agree with him that he was mistaken. Also, why is “turning up the idle speed” so hard for you to grasp as a concept? Whitey never said the plugs don’t fire during the power stroke, so I have no idea where that is coming from.
If English isn’t your first language, we could try debating in your native language. What is it?
I am curious to know what kind of maintenance you perform on your starter. Are you ever going to answer that question or are you going to keep making stuff up to change the subject?
(sigh)
Elly, I’ve explained myself as clearly as I can. When did I say the spark plugs don’t fire during the power stroke?
I’d still like to know what kind of maintenance you do to your starter, and whether you’ve ever thought about upgrading to a maintenance free starter. Are you ever going to answer that question?
Whitey, when I mentioned Power Stroke, you asked " where did you come up with that?" and I posted last night that I have never did mantainence on a starter, but have had to replace a few. And they do rebuild starters I don’t think they have to rebuild a hand crank. The only reason I mentioned the starter was because we were talking “cheap” and a hand crank is cheaper. (as a manual is cheaper than an auto.)
I don’t know where the post went as I only have three showing on here.
Elly wrote:
“And the time that you said that Ford found out how to make a 4 cylinder run smoother by shortening the space between power strokes. Did you mean that the power strokes were less than 180 degrees apart?”
Whitey suggested raising idle speed in order to reduce the time between power strokes, not the crank rotation.
Then all the back-and-fourth discussion drifted…
"Whitey suggested raising idle speed in order to reduce the time between power strokes, not the crank rotation. "
Does this statement make any sense to anyone out there. How can you reduce the time between power strokes, and not the crank rotation. ?
“How can you reduce the time between power strokes, and not the crank rotation. ?”
By spinning the crank faster.
What’s so hard to understand about that?
A 4 cylinder 4 stroke engine running at 100 RPM would have .3 seconds between power strokes.
At 6000 RPM it would have .005 seconds between power strokes.
In both cases 180 crank degrees of rotation between power strokes.
It makes perfect sense to me. You reduce the time between power strokes by increasing the idle speed (I think someone named Whitey already said that though, like 1000 times). You could do this by turning a little screw on the throttle assembly to make the throttle plate rest in a slightly open position. You don’t have to adjust the timing of the valves, like when you adjust or replace the cam shaft. You just monkey with the throttle assembly to adjust the idle speed. I’ve seen a motorcycle that has a nob you can use to adjust idle speed, so on that machine, you wouldn’t even need a screwdriver.
This doesn’t work well with EFI. It is quite common, though, on cars with old fashioned carburetors.
Does this explanation adequately explain this simple concept, which has already, repeatedly, been explained to you?
Gentlemen, while I appreciate your effort, EllyEllis has been provided cogent explanations of this concept before, and it hasn’t helped him or prevented him from bringing up the issue again in unrelated threads. I expect, some day soon, I will have to address this topic once again, in spite of your thoughtful and accurate responses.
(sigh)
Well, any fool would know that speeding up an engine would shorten the space between "firing of the spark plugs, which I called “power Strokes” and Whitey just asked me where I came up with such an, evidently foolish, name like that. Of course it would idle better, that is why most 4s idle faster than V6s or V8s. I am glad that Ford finally, after 100 years, discovered that "concept.
Ron-man, anyone with a 6th grade education would know that what you just said is true. However it would not help any above idle speed. At the time we were discussing whether or not a 4 was as smooth as a V6 and that was one of Whitey’s brilliant explanations.
I noticed you called them “power Strokes” as well. Whitey said he NEVER did call them “power Strokes”, which they are.
And as for maintainence of a starter is concerned, I bet you have spent more on starters than anyone has on hand cranks.