Are brands of blank transponder keys compatible for programming & other questions

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Are brands of blank transponder keys compatible for programming & other questions.

When I bought my 2013 Toyota Venza (used) a number of years ago, the used car dealer gave me one transponder key. By the lack of markings, neither the shell nor the metal blank part are Toyota OEM. I had the dealer make me a complete duplicate transponder key (also not OEM; $40), and a duplicate metal (steel?) key ($3). Both transponder keys could open the door and glove box, and start the car. (The metal key of course cannot start the car.)

One of transponder key shells broke a year or two ago. I think it was the one the used car dealer duplicated. So I had the local hardware store duplicate the shape of the other one, and enclose it in a new shell ($40). It worked for a while, but has broke again. They are out of blanks for my key type, but can order more.

The hardware store people (two of them are locksmiths) explained to me that I am using the transponder keys wrong. He said the plastic shells, and the plastic tab on the metal blank part, are weak, so if I twist the keys by the sides or top, they can break. He said to pinch it hard at the bottom while turning the key, to reduce stress. They suggested I order an OEM Toyota shell online, because they might be slightly stronger. (My dealer only sells complete keys, for a few hundred dollars.)

There are Youtube videos that say you can start the car with complete metal keys (which are much stronger), if the transponder key is next to it. I tried and couldn’t make that work. Maybe I did it wrong, or it doesn’t work. :frowning:

Looking online, I haven’t found an OEM Toyota shell source. So question one:

  1. Where can I buy Toyota OEM shells?

I can order online many off-brand shells for $6-$7 (including buttons, because I can’t find all the old buttons, and maybe they broke too), and new metal parts (that need to be cut) for $1 or $2. And there are $10 complete uncut programmable keys - and they sell expensive programming devices, or say to go to a locksmith, to program them to start the car.

OTOH, there are Youtube videos on programming them yourself without tools, while the key is in the ignition, using a working original key to send the code.

(I noticed that some say the batteries in transponder keys only last about 5-10 years.)

  1. It occurs to me that with many brands making cheap replacement programmable keys, maybe the programming tools, or the instructions on programming them without tools, aren’t compatible. I suppose a given manufacture might deliberately make their keys only programmable by their own machines, or make them unable to be used to program another brand’s keys. Is that true?

BTW, on a locksmith forum, a locksmith complained about customers bringing him cheap Internet programmable blanks to cut. He also said those blanks didn’t always work. So he tells them he isn’t allowed to program blanks unless they have federal agency approval, which he says most cheap keys don’t have.

I found another locksmith discussion, about better brands of key blank. One liked ILCO - which only sells in lots of 10 or more, and I’m not sure if they sell to non-locksmiths. Then again, a box of 10 such ILCO blanks costs several times less than a Toyota dealer charges to make one key. Presumably enough to last the lifetime of the car, though I might still need to replace batteries.

  1. Are there stronger and less problematic brands of off-brand blanks, that we can all buy and program without tools? Which ones?

  2. I noticed before that if I don’t use one of my keys to run the car for a few weaks, they won’t remote unlock the car. Does that mean the batteries are charged while in the ignition? (Perhaps inductively, since there is no wire for an electrical return path.)

I know I’m going down a rabbit hole. I should just go back to the hardware store, and have them order me their preferred brand shell, and do so again, the next time it breaks. And have them replace the batteries, since I don’t have tools for that. I’m partly just curious about these issues. And somewhat annoyed at how much Toyota dealers charge for new keys.

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My 2005 Town and Country key has a broken case. I hit upon the idea of ordering one of those $15 replacements but could not find anyone willing to cut the key. So, I thought I’d just exchange the existing key that has 2 “wings” that slip into notches in the shell (which is where mine broke, perhaps from using the key to pry on something.) The replacements are secured by 2 tiny screws and have a different length blade.) It is held together with epoxy and I still use the thing by doing as your hardware guys suggested - holding it at the stress point.

The price of a new key - dealer or aftermarket - is $300. Years back, when I was the transportation director for a school district, we had ordered a new Ford Taurus. In that time the keys ran a little over $100 from the dealer. However, when we got the new vehicle, we ordered 5 copies of the key because with multiple drivers, those things disappear. All 5 cost a grands total of $90. Can anyone say price gouging?

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Did you try to find just the case. Mine broke on my Highlander (dropped it on concrete). Batteries+ had a replacement case (just the case).

Amazon.com: J-ACCES Key Fob Case Shell Fit for Chrysler Town and Country Dodge Durango Grand Caravan Replacement Car Key Housing Outer Cover (1) : Automotive

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I went through this as well. I ended up having the ILCO ones cut and then programming the car to recognize them. You have to have TWO working and programmed keys present to program a new one. I misplaced a key for a while and was concerned about not having a spare. I ordered the ILCO blanks as soon as I found the key and planned to have two cut.

That was easier said than done. No hardware or locksmiths were willing to cut customer provided keys. If they were they wanted $100 per key.

Eventually I went to Lowes. I found some very young 16 year old boy who wasn’t sure what to do but came up with a solution without asking a manager. He offered to cut my keys for the price of the cheapest key they sold and I was more than happy to do that!

For $3 or whatever I had TWO keys cut. These will not unlock doors remotely but will start the car and allow it to run.

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Yes, I have tried to find a case. That was the back up plan to ordering an aftermarket and either A) Getting someone to cut the key pattern into the blade

; or B swapping the original blade to the newly acquired a case.

Both plans ran into insurmountable obstacles. No one I’ve asked yet will take the blank I acquired elsewhere and cut the key. (I know sometimes keys don’t work when duplicated and I wouldn’t hold them responsible but I think that is part of the problem.) And the blade parts are not interchangeable. The factory unit fits tightly into notches in the key case because it has “wings” and the aftermarket ones affix to the case by means of two little screws, in addition to being longer. The original is not long enough to drill holes even if the “wings” were to be ground away.

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I was fortunate to find a hardware store owner/manager/locksmith who was willing to be helpful.

She is at Beltway Hardware store in Greenbelt, MD. She said they cut customer-provided blanks for $5. They won’t guarantee them, and said they don’t always work. If they need to be programmed, they charge $100 for that. But she isn’t always on duty - I called to check.

She said that while some brands (all brands??) of programmable key off the Internet can be programmed in the car’s own ignition (I found some instructions on Youtube), different car brands, years and models might program differently - and different key blank brands might too. She suggested that I could buy some and try following whatever instructions I found.

In the mean time I bought their $40 shell (with buttons but requiring the old electronics) + blank, for my 2013 Toyota Venza, and she duped the old key to the blank at no extra charge. It took two attempts - the first worked, with a little fiddling, in one orientation, but not the opposite orientation, and hardly worked at all in the door key. I took it back, and they (actually, the other locksmith who works there) corrected it (maybe cut it a little deeper??) and it worked perfectly, in the ignition, and in the door key.

I was wrong about the broken one being a duplicate. She said it was an original (OEM) key, which makes it 11 years old. She said the battery tested fine, but I had her change it while the key was open. (My shell does not have screws. I think it snaps together, possibly with glue.)

She didn’t think the shell and blank the store used (from ILCO) were any weaker than the OEM parts.

She told me that the non-transponder key (which I called a steel key - but it really isn’t, because the top is plastic) I had made probably had the same internal blank, and was no stronger. But she showed me how to use it to start the car - I had to hold a transponder key next to it - I have to hold it at right angles to the other key. I guess doing it that way might make sense - that key only cost a few dollars, somewhat cheaper than the transponder keys.

Of course, I guess you should always keep a needle nose pliers in the car, so if the key breaks, you can pull it out of the ignition.

I was worried about the “master keys” I found listed on eBay. She said they aren’t master keys in the sense of there being a master cylinder with a separate master pin setting. She said they still need to be cut and programmed to your vehicle. In effect, they are no different from the other programmable keys. Not sure why they call them master keys. Maybe it’s just a sales technique.

Just in case she was wrong about those master keys, I asked about installing a 2nd hidden switch, to make it harder for thieves. She said that would be considered a modification of the security system, which would probably void my theft insurance. :frowning:

And once again she emphasized pinching the key at the bottom to turn it, not holding it from the top or sides, to reduce breakage.

Anyway, in summary, it sounds like there are different policies at different hardware stores regarding cutting blanks brought in by the customer, differing instructions on how to program programmable keys, and some risk that a blank key you bring in won’t work.

(As I mentioned, my local Toyota dealer wouldn’t sell me a shell and blank - only complete new keys. I forget the price, but think it was either $300 or $330. Not worth it. Plus, it broke immediately after they did recall service on it, in the dealer service lot - I wondered if they had deliberately fractured the key so I would have to buy one of those expensive keys from them. After all, the prices they cited for additional work they wanted to do were many times some other shops would charge. Fortunately, I had a pliers with me, managed to pull out the metal part from the ignition, and also had a 2nd key with me, so I got it to start.)

Clearly, based on other respondent’s experiences, cooperation by store personnel is not universal. I suggest the rest you call ahead to several hardware stores to try to find a cooperative one, should you run into this problem.

Anyway, thanks guys for your attempts to help.

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That was the price for a Smart Key for push button start.

Toyota offers replacement key cases for vehicles with standard keys. Approximately $30.

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There are “Master Keys” and “Valet” keys. Your Vehicle did not come with valet keys, (no trunk to secure) all of your keys are master keys.

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Oh. My dealer didn’t offer those cases! Not a bad deal, if they had. Though my buttons had broken out too, so that one wouldn’t have done the job.

But the dealer had cited $300 or $330 (I forget which) to copy my transponder key. I showed them my key, so they knew what I was asking for. That dealer doesn’t call the remote start devices keys - they call them “key fobs”, or remote start devices.

BTW, the hardware store I went to can’t handle everything. They said that if I had wanted to duplicate the older pre-transponder era keys, they couldn’t have done it with their machine. She also claimed the duplicate-your-key-yourself machines in shopping malls couldn’t handle them either. If that’s right, perhaps that is part of what it might mean to go to a general hardware store rather a true locksmith shop? Plus, the people there, including the manager, got their locksmith’s license fairly recently. There used to be a full lock shop at the same shopping center, but it closed. Maybe a hardware store is a more viable business than a lock shop?? plus, in today’s cell phone era, maybe most locksmith build their shop into a truck, rather than a brick and mortar store, so they can come to the customer if they lock themselves out?

And that store charged me substantially more for the shell than cheap Internet prices.

But I wanted it done now, so if my current one breaks, I can still use the car. Perhaps I should order a few cheap Internet shells, to cover future breakage. And I am tempted to order a cheap Internet programmable key, just to see whether I can program it the way a Youtube video says, without tools, and to give myself another working full backup. (But it would be useless if my programming fails.)

I will keep the original metal piece that fell out of the OEM key when it broke, to make any future copies from. Otherwise, future keys might be a copy of a copy of the OEM key. This one is only a copy of the OEM key, so I will mostly not use it, and use the 2nd order copy instead.

I suppose, in retrospect, it should have been obvious that pinching a key at the bottom was less stress on the key, than turning it by the sides. But for the most part, I had no problems with old style steel or brass keys back in the pre-transponder days, except when a lock itself went bad - perhaps because I used that lock every time I opened or closed that car, and drove it in deep, sometimes dirty, snow that often got into the lock. The new keys really are designed to fail - and the manager/locksmith told me that was true of all or most brands of modern car. They could instead have made keys in which the entire area included solid steel underneath, and that would have been much stronger.

I’m glad house keys aren’t these stupid transponder keys! :slight_smile:

The non-transponder copy I had made functions sort of like a Valet key in that it can unlock the car and the glove box, but can’t start the car unless a transponder is held next to it. But how is that a “valet key”? Wouldn’t a real valet need to drive the car to park and retrieve it for you?

It was made for $3 by a mobile locksmith who happened to be at the used car dealer where I bought the car, when I bought it. (A small town locksmith who partly made a business of driving from dealer to dealer making keys for them. He also made me a complete copy of the OEM key (I guess) for $40, and programmed it, though that was about 5 years ago.

Oh well.