The easiest road tax would be to roll it into registration fees and base it on average miles, vehicle weight, and number of wheels/axles. If you try to tax the electricity, you still won’t help the infrastructure, because most EV owners have seen just how effective solar arrays are. Tax gas, but EVs don’t use gas. Tax electricity, but EV owners with solar arrays don’t pay for much electricity. That means that the most effective way of generating funds for roads, bridges, etc. is to charge those fees at the time that vehicles are registered to legally use them. Of course, the other alternative is to turn every maintained road into a toll road.
@ kenberthiaume: The generally accepted energy equivalent for a gallon of gasoline is 34 kWh, and that is the standard that is used to determine MPGe. Otherwise, you’re right. Maybe 10 kWh of energy is actually used to move and run the vehicle. The other 24 kWh is released as heat and vibration. The heat can be useful, sometimes, but otherwise, it’s all waste.
@aventineavenue
Leasing may work for many but it is the most profitable for the car maker and the most expensive way to drive car. Making perpetual $259 payments and paying $2500 up front and having nothing at lease end means another lease is probably where you are headed with NO equity.
For car owners who buy cars more efficiently and keep a car for 10 years, it is unrealistic comparing lease ownership. Even given that the price of the lease remains the same, which it won’t, you will pay well over 35,000 over that same period with no rebate and still no car at the end…and still, after 40 miles you get less mileage then a compact. Yes, you may have a better driving experience, but you pay dearly for it. Lease mentality is a huge profit maker for car companies…it saves you NOTHING but does buy convenience. Btw, to realize anything substantial gas savings, you may, unless you live in the sweet spot, incur a mileage penalty.
The EVs are very restrictive on the other end meaning, no Awd, no towing and no long trips that with a Volt, means no savings. Add passengers, weight and load, the savings becomes minimal. Leasing saves money …if you lease a truck and plow snow under warranty.
Here is a guy who decided it’s cheaper to buy a Volt then lease one…now you’re back to square one.
@dagosa: Your whole “leasing is bad” argument is a red herring - fact remains, the Volt costs nor more to lease that’s the lesser vehicles, Corolla or Civic.
As for 10 year ownshership? the Volt will cost WAY less than either.
Have a look at 5 year TCO “total cost of ownership”:
Volt
$39.7k
Corrolla
$37.7k
Civic
$38.9
But here’s the thing, the Volt fuel and maintenance costs in the calculator are inflated, and the financing is 0%
All that is easily another 5 grand savings for the Volt, giving it a $3k to $4k for 5 year TCO edge over these two foreign ECONOBOXES. Imagine the 10 year saving now, it’s probably over 10 grand. A better car, that costs you less and less over time, and is hardly using in gasoline.
Now compare the Volt to cars in its true class, small midsize, upscale sedans, the cars it ranks equal or higher than:
Here the Volt ranks #4 in Upscale Midsize cars, beating out a Mercedes, an Audi, and a Lexus. Compare its savings to ANY vehicle on this entire list, I dare you. Otherwise, you might as well compare that Hyundai to a Tata Nano (I’ll save the the rouble - the Tata’s cheaper)
Finally, let’s use some real world operating cost numbers for the Volt, as what both Edmunds and kbb indicate for operating costs are way off for the Volt. Here’s my real first year, and this is for 20k miles, not 15k:
Fuel: $660 ($600 electric + $60 gas)
Maintenance: $52 (two tire rotations @ $25 each and a bottle of wiper fluid @ $2; when you don’t need your oil change service any more, you run out of wiper fluid!)
Financing cost: $0 (60-72 months 0% financing with the Volt)
Total: $712 (wheras kbb is saying that it should have cost ~$1800)
@aventineavenue - I’m sorry, I don’t buy the comparisons to BMWs, Audis, etc. for the Volt. When Car and Driver compared the Volt and the Cruze, they preferred the Cruze:
And they LIKE the Volt, made it one of their 10 Best Cars for 2011. But the description they give is far from what you’d expect for a BMW 328i:
“To put it simply, the Chevy Volt was far and away the biggest surprise to every editor at this year’s 10Best event. None of us imagined that nestling into the glass cockpit would bring the words “automotive bliss” and “electric vehicle” together in the same sentence. The smooth-riding Volt can’t shred tarmac like a VW GTI or infuse fun into the family-sedan segment like a Honda Accord or a Hyundai Sonata. Think of the Volt as smile-inducing Xanax for range anxiety—something all other EVs evoke. Canceling the range limitation from the EV equation doesn’t make it perfect, though. A tight back seat, limited cargo capacity, and a general lack of horsepower—though plenty of low-end grunt to merge onto the highway like you have somewhere to be—would normally eliminate a 3800-pound porker from contention. However, one would need to be driving straight through the Library of Congress to detect the switchover from EV mode to gas-electric hybrid operation. And maximizing the electric range by curtailing full-throttle or full-brake episodes brings its own kind of driver engagement. Best of all, its efficiency is unmatched, as long as interstate travel is omitted. One editor drove the Volt 101 miles in 18 hours (including a 10.5-hour charge) and only used one gallon of gas. That’s some seriously eye-opening arithmetic.”
It’s easy to make a car look like a reasonable deal by comparing it to much more expensive offerings.
Saw LEAF at local tribal casino on my why home. Caught my clams and decided that I could afford 15 clams at the tables, a free soda/coffee, and facility use.
Anyway, a PEV and a bank of solarcells, is a good example to replace ICE vehicles for parking lot security and parking lot shuttles. A PEV excells at low speeds, frequent stops, short distances and used less during daytime hours but more so at dark and peak customer hours.
And I always thought the elevator didn’t like me, The opening of the door was a polite way to ask me to vacate its presence. That little motor that runs opens the door-I hope I never pay attention to it, because if I do, that motor may decide that it is bashful and won’t do the job when someone is watching.
@texases - many former BMW owners already did “buy it”…the Volt that is. The 3-series was the #4 top traded in vehicle for a Volt in 2012. Now why do you think that was?
For many reasons, I’m sure. But that has nothing to do with the head-to-head driving/handling ability of the two cars. Objective articles have not put the two in the same category.
Honest, I have no problem with the Volt as a car, it’s a great idea, and I’m happy that folks are buying and enjoying them. But some of the claims made in this thread appear nowhere in the literature…
they might have been wanting to return their rental…er leased BMW in for something else, and the tax break on the Volt probably helped them decide what to rent next
“For many reasons, I’m sure. But that has nothing to do with the head-to-head driving/handling ability of the two cars. Objective articles have not put the two in the same category.”
The article said mid-sized luxury cars, not just mid-sized luxury sports sedans (coupes). The Lexus ES and ES hybrid are by no means sports sedans, either.
@texases: Thanks, I am glad to hear you are not a blind Volt hater like so many out there. GM has been very conservative about what it claims for the Volt in everything from efficiency to performance, perhaps for concern of being further attacked for over-promising and under-delivering in the real world (see: Ford Energi models) so you won’t hear anything from them.
You may only be convinced of the Volt’s comparability to upscale vehicles by test driving a Volt and popping it into Sport mode + L (something I rarely do because hypermiling is quite fun too!).
But let’s go back to the original post again, asking to hear from Volt owners. The below is from just ONE thread at gm-volt.com, by former upscale car owners, mostly former BMW owners.
GasFree:“I have owned only BMW’s since the 90’s so this is a major event in our household… I am thrilled and excited by the (Volt) driving experience after the first couple trips…Had a great day behind the wheel and I am not missing the BMW. Very impressed with the smooth, quiet, tight ride. The seamless torque from zero to 50 is unlike anything with an ICE.”
CarZin: “I am also a BMW convert!”
MSB: “My (BMW) M3 is sitting covered in the driveway. My wife’s Volt was so much fun and economical to drive I had to get one too.”
Joeyvolt: “I left a Lexus LS430 for my Volt.”
wireless51: “I traded a 2008 Mercedes CLK off on a 2012, loved the Volt so much I added a 2013.”
sinnombre: “I had a new 2007 (BMW) 530i with a 6-speed manual . I also had a 2007 Impala SS . Later I traded my 2009 Cad CTS for a 2012 Volt and it is by far my favorite.”
sminnick: “I too have an M3 (BMW) sitting in the driveway waiting to get sold in the spring…the Volt seems to handle and give me just as much driving fun as the M3 does…”
Sales need a boost, I agree! It’s partly because among the public, the Volt is still kind of a “best kept secret”, at best, and unjustly maligned, as worst. Word of mouth seems to be the way to go.
BTW, I didn’t trade in a BMW for a Volt; I traded a Toyota Yaris (that love to stall out in 1st gear) So not to surprising I find the Volt to be an awesome handling torque-monster, in comparison.
Why BMW is the #4 car traded in on a Volt ?
First, they are drivers with too much money to spend. Second, they are used to being inconvenienced by their cars and third, they are looking for another way to drive a “head turner”.
“I am glad to hear you are not a blind Volt hater like so many out there”
So anybody who doesn’t agree with you that it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread is a dirty lowdown heathen?
Are you a member of Congress?
And, before you call my response harsh, let me remind you that the best response you had for my previous analysis was to call it a “silly” comparison.