A blast from the past! Really lol

General Discussion
21

Toyota did not export all of its cars to the US. At the time of the Cressida they also produced the Japanese Crown, a larger car with lots of legroom since it was to be a government and corporate car. It even had a lever the chauffer could pull that opened the rear door so the boss could get out. Limos also used this feature.

Toyota realized that mid size cars, especially in the West Coast would be their bread and butter. The Camry was a real success, followed by the Corolla. It replaced the rear drive but cramped Corona introduced in the late 60s.The simple truth was that Americans are on average a lot taller and wider than the Japanese, and those tiny cars would never be popular.

For the US market the Crown was superseded by the Cressida, which in turn was replaced by the Avalon, a stretched Camry. The European and Japanese Camrys are a different size, as are Accords from Honda.

After sorting out what the North American market needed Toyota went on a roll and has not looked back since.

22

Another simple truth is that we’ve also got big butts, bellies, and weigh considerably more than the average Japanese driver

:frowning:

23
@MikeInNH Taurus durability:. Sister-in-law 1; Triedaq 2. I had good experiences with both the 1988 Taurus and the 1989 Sable I owned. Both cars went between 150,000 and 200,000 miles. The Taurus was totaled in an accident.

If you do a google search you’ll find a lot of people very dissatisfied with that era Taurus.

Sister-In-Law bought another Taurus after that one and again had a lot of problems. While she still owned it her daughter started college and we gave our niece our 1996 Accord with about 260k miles. It was more reliable with 260k miles then S-I-L Taurus’s or her husbands Ford Trucks. After 40+ years of owning Fords My brother-in-law now owns a Honda Pilot and Sister-In-Law owns a Toyota Corolla
and EXTREMELY happy with their decision.

24

@MikeInNH You touched on an important point. If you have never owned a really reliable and durable car you can think what you drive is OK.

A friend of my wife’s family had never owned a non-US car, they always had Big 3 cars. Her last US car was a 1997 Taurus which they bought low mileage from a lease return. It has behaved acceptably and now has 160,000 miles on it. But it has rust and many rattles, although still reliable.

Her big surprise, however, is their Hyundai Elantra which has behaved flawlessly and is accumulating most of the miles. She, now a widow, is finally convinced Asian cars on average are significantly better than US cars.

A family down the street have owned Volkswagens for the last 30 years or so. As long as every new one they buy is as good as the previous one they think VWs are great! The also trade every 4 years or so. It would be a waste of time to explain to them their very high cost of car ownership.

My brother in law has a high end Buick, his previous car was a Le Sabre, and prior to that he had Crown Victorias. He loves the Buick which has not been trouble free but he accepts that level of reliability. As a farmer he buys quality stuff; he owns 2 Deutz (German) diesel tractors and one John Deere.

25

The Crown is still popular in Japan as a taxi. It is essentially their version of the Checker, though smaller than the Checker cab. It still has those features you mentioned, including the passenger door on the left side that opens when the driver commands it to. We were cautioned to keep away from that door unless entering the car.

26

Regarding my earlier comment about those old Cressidas being more durable than Tauruses, please allow me to clarify.

Although I did have some initial electronic glitches with the Taurus, it proved to be a very reliable and durable car for the 6 years that I owned it. In fact, despite the reputation for early failure of their transmissions, my experience regarding the trans of my Taurus was a very positive one:

As I described in another thread a few months ago, I couldn’t avoid driving over a load of rebars that had been dropped by a truck in front of me on the highway. I initially assumed that the car had sustained no damage, however, about 15 miles later, as I exited the highway, the transmission did a VERY hard downshift, which was not at all characteristic of the way that it operated.

Because I was only ~1/2 mile from home at that point, I opted to keep driving until I was able to get to my own driveway. As soon as I got out of the car, I saw a telltale trail of red fluid on the ground, and a small puddle of the same red fluid on the ground underneath the car. Gulp! Not good!

I checked the dipstick, and it showed no fluid on the stick. The puddle on the ground did not get any bigger, so apparently the trans lost the last pint of so of its fluid as I drove into my driveway.
With fear and trepidation, I had the car towed to the Ford dealership, and they simply replaced the trans pan and gasket, refilled it with fluid, and sent me on my way after I paid the bill.

And–believe it or not–that transmission continued to operate normally for the remaining 3 years that I owned the car. Even though I had essentially run the transmission dry, somehow it had survived that torture.

Other than needing to replace a couple of sensors when the car was a few months old, I never had any other electronic issues with it, and I had no mechanical problems with it.

As to the Cressida, I went by my neighbor’s claims that the car was “bulletproof”. Whether it really was that reliable or durable, I can’t say.

27

Before I label a car as a piece of junk, I need to know what kind of problem the car has. We currently have two Toyota products --a 2003 4Runner and a 2011 Sienna, both purchased new. When we first got the 4Runner, I almost forced the dealer to buy it back under our state’s lemon law. The serpentine belt squeaked loudly. The dealer replaced the belt and 2 days later, the new belt squeaked. The dealer put on another new belt. Not only did that belt start squeaking, but the dealer’s technician didn’t put the belt on properly and the belt pulled out the crankshaft oil seal and the car leaked oil. I returned the 4Runner to the dealer and the oil seal was replaced and another new belt installed. Three days later, the new belt started squeaking. I returned to the dealer,and gave him two options:1)buy the car back and I will buy another make; 2) get to the root of the problem and fix it. I insisted that the dealer keep the 4Runner for a,week, drive it aqt least 100 miles and provide me with a loaner. The dealer chose option 2. The problem turned out to be the tensioner for the belt. Now, it would have been easy for me to say that 4Runners are junk. However, after the proper repair, the 4Runner has been troublefree. The only repair has been a new front wheel bearing. The Sienna has been reliable and troublefree, but so was the 2006 Chevrolet Uplander that I owned. One disappointment with the Sienna is the quality of the interior materials. It hasn’t stood up as well as did the interior of the Uplander. Both the Uplander and the Sienna were the lowest trimlines. The fit and finish and durability of the Uplander was better. Both the Sienna and the Uplanderr saw a lot of use transporting people and musical instruments and hauling building materials. I am quite satisfied with the Sienna, but I wish the interior would have had better quality materials.

28

Types of problems are insignificant. The cost and frequency are far more telling. When you have to spend several thousand of dollars of (so called minor) repairs before it even reaches 100k miles
I don’t care what those minor problems are
the car is NOT reliable. SIL didn’t have an engine rebuild or tranny rebuild
but a slew of problems that left her stranded several times and out thousands of dollars for repairs. She was lucky she could borrow her moms car every time her’s quit on her.

29

Regarding reliabilty of a car like the Taurus/Sable I will say this. You go on the internet and you will find complaints about every make and model out there.

The more that are manufactured the more numerous the complaints. Some complaints are justified and some are not.

Just for hoots now and then I’ve poked around and read complaints on (fill in the blank).
It’s amazing how many of those complaints are self-inflicted.
Try and convince the owners they had one thing to do with those problems. A team of goons from the Mafia couldn’t beat that realization into them.

The Taurus has had a 30 year production run and it has that lengthy run for a reason.

30

@ok4450

carcomplaints.com is rather interesting

Yes, you are correct

There ARE complaints about every make and model

However . . . the “interesting” thing about the website I mentioned is that certain models and to be more specific, certain model years have FAR more complaints than others

And you can look at the graph, year by year and see some interesting patterns. For example, when a problematic engine is finally replaced, the number of complaints goes down.

You’re talking about self-inflicted complaints

I’m not

I know how to recognize those by reading the complaints

I’m talking about NON self-inflicted complaints. With some of these complaints, it’s 100% clear the problem has absolutely nothing to do with the driver, or his habits, or maintenance. Those are the ones I’m interested in

31

@MikeInNH I agree that the type of problem is insignificant if it costs me time. I had never owned a Toyota before the 2003 4Runner. It cost us time when we first owned it. The problem was simple --a defective belt tensioner. However, the time involved in takimg it back to the dealer 40 minutes away numerous times was frustrating and using my expensive time. My first car, a 15 year old 1947 Pontiac, for which I paid $75 was less a headache. It had some big issues --a cracked block and a,worn cluster gear. However, a can of K & W seal solved the block problem and shifting out of low gear as quickly as possible let me drive on with the chipped cluster gear in the transmission. I made the 350 mile trip to graduate school without incident. I was afraid to take the new 4Runner out of town for fear that the belt would slip so badly that it wouldn’t spin the alternator or water pump. I had less confidence in the 4Runner than I did in the worn out Pontiac. Maybe we were lucky, but neither our Taurus nor Sable ever left us stranded. It reminds me of my experience when my first wife and I went to graduate school and had a pretty well worn out 1965 Rambler. We lived in married student housing and new faculty were allowed to live there for a year as they sought permanent housing. A new chemistry professor and his wife lived in the building and they owned a BMW. That BMW had a starting problem in damp weather. One morning when I went out to take my wife to her assistantship duties and then go to my building, the young chemistry professor was under the hood of the BMW frantically trying to dry out the ignition system while his wife was in the car screaming at him that she would be late for work. I offered to take both of them to campus and took his wife to her work, then proceeded to take my wife to her location and then headed for the chemistry building. The young chemistry professor proceeded to tell me how well engineered his BMW was and how poorly designed my Rambler was. I finally said that no matter what the weather, my Rambler would always start. I also said I had pulled a heavily loaded U-HAUL trailer with all my possessions in 90 degree weather and the Rambler still ran in the normal heat range. I said, “That is what I call engineering”. He then told me I wouldn’t appreciate a fine car. My reply was, “That may be true, but I sure hate to walk in the rain”. Now the problem with that BMW may have been simple, but for me that BMW would have been worthless. My dad was friends with the DeSoto/Plymouth dealer. I was ready to go to grad school and had gone with my dad to the dealer to have his car serviced. On the lot was a Porsche. I went over and was drooling over it. The owner of the agency came over and said, “That’s not the car for you. It would take all your graduate assistant pay and then some to keep it running”. I couldn’t begin to afford the Porsche which is why I wound up with a $75 Pontiac. I agree that whatever the make of car is, if it leaves you stranded or continues to take time and money going to the shop, the car isn’t worth it.

32
It cost us time when we first owned it. The problem was simple --a defective belt tensioner. However, the time involved in takimg it back to the dealer 40 minutes away numerous times was frustrating and using my expensive time.

If you’re talking one simple problem that was fixed quickly
then yea I agree. But Sister-In-Law had multiple different problems. Gets a problem
gets it fixed
then another problem
It wasn’t just one simple problem. Multiple problems over multiple years that added up to THOUSANDS in repairs. She also had numerous repairs while still under warranty.

33

@MikeInNH Unfortunately, the problem wasn’t fixed quickly. We made five trips back and forth to the dealer. It was a simple problem. However, the time involved a 50 mile round trip, having one “repair” result in the crankshaft oil seal being pulled out(and Toyota was not the one who cleaned up the oil spill on our garage floor) was expensive for me. For all but one of the trips, we drove both our vehicles to the dealer and did this over our lunch hours. I had a research project going at the time and needed the time. Had the dealer not finally resolved the problem after I threatened a lemon law repurchase, I would have decided that I never would buy another Toyota product. Once the problem was solved, I never returned to that dealer. I do believe the problem was incompetence of the dealer’s service department. Fortunately, a Toyota dealer did open up,abouf a,mile and a half from our house and this dealer has a,competent service department and I bought my next Toyota from this dealer. Had the vehicle been a,Ford, Chevrolet, or even a Rolls Royce, I would have had the same feeling. I will say that of all the new cars or almost new cars under warranty that I have purchased including a,1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass, a 1985 Ford Tempo, a 1988 Ford Taurus, a 2000 Ford Windstar, a 2006 Chevrolet Uplander, a 2003 4Runner and a 2011 Sienna, the only one that initially gave me buyer’s remorse was the 4Runner. Fortunately, after a month of grief, the problem was resolved and it has been quite reliable.

34

But you only had ONE problem
NOT multiple problems over several years. Is you 4runner reliable
maybe
but surely far far far far far more reliable then Sister-In-Laws Taurus’s.

35

@db4690, I’m familiar with complaints.com but that was not the one I was thinking of. There are random other forums with baseless complaints and yes, I do agree there are many legitimate ones also.

Per some local ones in my area. The lady who ran her 3 week old Nissan into a ditch after losing it on the ice and wiping out the right front; wheel and all. You should have heard her screaming when told warranty would not repair this. She left cursing and swearing she would never buy another poorly built Nissan again.

Or the guy whose bucking Blazer went into the Chevy dealer. He was told he needed a fuel filter and fuel pump. He passed on the pump and went with the filter only.
A 100 miles from home back in Texas the Blazer quit when the pump died. Who did he blame?
The Chevy dealer in OK. He then went online and made a lengthy complaint.
The service manager (who I’ve known for decades) called the Chevy dealer in TX and discovered that about 75% of the things he claimed the dealer in TX said were not true at all.

As a shop foreman I’ve also gotten in the middle of a number of these things. In every single case (and I mean with NO exceptions) the car owner NEVER told corporate the entire truthful story. They always fudged or omitted facts.

36

Undoubtedly the omitted facts were decidedly NOT in their favor :smirk:

standard operating procedures for scumbags of all sorts :wink:

37

Or the guy who towed his near new VW in with a buddy’s help late at night and dumped it at the dealer. He left an Early Bird ticket with a “Repair to Start” on it.
The sledgehammer clanking noise led to raising the hood and finding 2 rods sticking through the block.

When given the good news he blamed us (me actually
) for botching his oil change. I had done the oil change 11k miles and 1 year previously and when finally backed into a corner he admitted the hood never came up to check anything.

The car was also left that night full of fresh oil and a new filter on it.

Of course the only story he gave VW’s regional office was that we had “just” changed his oil and did not fill it up.
When given the full story VW also told him to get bent.

38

@ok4450

Those guys are essentially the same thing as thieves

They are lying, and trying to take something that they’re not entitled to

Or just call them parasites . . . IMO one of the worst kind of human being

“when finally backed into a corner. . .”

Did you have to threaten bodily harm to get the truth? :sweat_smile:

I’ve seen that same scenario a few times myself, where a guy throws a new filter and oil at a toasted engine, and claims ignorance. Ought to be tarred and feathered, and run out of town

39

In a lighter vein, in the movie “Victor Victoria” Julie Andrews orders a sumptuous meal in a classy restaurant in Paris. Towards the end of the meal she pulls a cockroach out of her purse and carefully sticks it into the rest of the meal. Then shouts for the waiter, and with the appropriate “Mon Dieu’s” and apologies she gets the meal free and a lush dessert as compensation for her ‘suffering’.

40

@MikeInNH Whether I have to make 5 trips to the dealer for one problem to be finally solved or five trips to the dealer for five different problems where each problem is solved on the trip to the dealer for that problem is irrelevant. Time is valuable. I estimate the time it will take to do a job and then decide whether I want to spend doing that job. For example, I quit doing my own oil changes because of the time involved. When I had the Chevrolet Uplander, the dealer was close by. I would call in and schedule the time between the classes I was teaching. I would take my briefcase with me and either grade papers or work on a project. One service writer was in his late 20s, had a young family and waa taking evening classes for his degree at the university where I taught. He would check my vehicle in, then take his break and bring me a cup of coffee and chat for ten minutes. I enjoyed the time talking to him and I would also get some work done while the Uplander was being serviced. However, for my wife, who had a professional position and I to spend our lunch hour taking the 4Runner to the dealer and then going back later to pick it up and find that it still had the same problem didn’t cut it. It took more of my time than the 1990 Ford Aerostar I bought from a used car dealer in late 1991. It still had the factory warranty. It developed a problem which required replacing the engine. The used car dealer loaned me a vehicle to drive and took the Aerostar to the Ford dealer. Now replacing an engine is more serious than replacing a belt tensioner, but I was out less time with the Aerostar. I think it was over two weeks that the dealer had the Aerostar, but I wasn’t out any time to speak of. Yes, had I had your S I L’s Taurus, it would have been given a new home in short order. I would get rid of any make vehicle that consumed my time being repaired. I don’t care if it had one problem that required frequent trips to solve or many problems that took frequent trips to the shop to get fixed. The Taurus and the Sable that we owned were reliable and troublefree. Had either car given us frequent problems, it would have been traded in for something else. I learned a good lesson with my two stroke rototiller this spring. It has always been a bear to start. I spent a good half hour one morning before it finally decided to start. I’ve changed spark plugs, used $5 a liter 50:1 ethanol free fuel, and the only way I could start it was to spray choke and carb cleaner into the carburetor. I vecame so disgusted with the thing, I was ready to put it out with the trash. After I finally got it to go and did garden, I tossed it in the back of my van and carted it to Rural King. The mechanic determined right away that the carburetor was bad. I had to go online and order the carburetor, but the Rural King mechanic replaced the carburetor, put in new fuel lines and a spark plug for $27.13. When I got it out to use it after getting it back, it started on the first pull. I kick myself for putting up with it for the past six years. As an added bonus, the mechanic told me that the probable reason my first planting of corn didn’t come up,was that I had over fertilized and burned the roots. I think he was right on that count–the second planting took.