55 mph...it's time has come

Agree that 40,000 fatalities is 40,000 too many! However, you seem to miss the point other posters are trying to make:

  1. There has been a 16 fold increase in the miles travelled since the mid 50s, proving that cars and highways are much safer.

  2. Lower speed limits have not proven to lower fatality rates by themselves. Driving 55 on an Interstate literally puts people to sleep.

  3. Countries with good road sytems such as Germany, Holland and France have 1/2 the fatality rates on expressways, in spite of much higher or no speed limits!!! These countries have very tough driver tests, annual inspection of vehicles, and a lot a ongoing driver public driver ed.

  4. None of these countries with high fuel and horsepower taxes has lowered speed limits to save on fuel because of the enormous ecopnonimc losses. (see #5)

  5. There is an enormous cost attached to driving excessively slow; wider roads are needed, time travelled could be used working, etc.

Forget that 55mph bunk. There are many more ideas that make sense, and so many arguments against 55mph.

First less need for the 70mph cruiser. I wholey agree, it is time for the 80mph cruiser to be baptized. Smaller, more efficient engines doen’t mean slower, just better. That is why a 3.0L Turbo charged engine get 21/30 mpg and 300 hp. That will cruise at 80 just fine, at 30 mpg and accelerate to 60 in under 5 seconds.

Fewer traffic fatalities in the 70’s. Whatever. Deaths per mile driven are down consistantly, and while that is a crap statistic, there isn’t really anything better to refute it. What?s overlooked is that per-mile death rates across all kinds of US roads ?rural and urban ones, interstate highways and city streets, etc.?are too broad to assess the effects of a specific policy change like raising speed limits on specific roads. Urbanization, demographics, and climate have a greater effect on fatalities than speed limits and safety measures. So instead, who is driving around you, how close to a city you are, what your weather girl is saying, how much sleep you got, what you are eating, and who you are texting has a greater effect on traffic fatalities and accidents in general, than speed. (IIHS) "The very rural state of Montana, for example, has the highest per-mile death rate among the 50 states. What happens when its rate is standardized by urban versus rural mileage to match the US as a whole? Then Montana drops to 27th among the states in terms of its death rate per mile traveled. States with the highest per-mile rates also have the lowest median incomes, percentages of population with college degrees, and school spending per pupil. They have the highest proportions of high-risk drivers, those 16-20 years old. States with high population densities and traffic congestion have low per-mile death rates. In fact, almost 70 percent of the variability among passenger vehicle occupant death rates can be explained by urbanization and demographics…New Hampshire has the fourth lowest per-mile death rate among the 50 states. Does this mean its programs and polices are better or more effective than those in other states? No. In fact, New Hampshire is the only US state without a belt use law. Its buckle-up rate is much lower than in other states. Nor does New Hampshire have a motorcycle helmet law. Its per-mile death rate is low largely because of factors related to urbanization and demographics, not because of its safety policies.
"
The only real solutions are to be done before one even gets in the car by themselves. An age variable and adjusted rate/fee for getting a license, tougher inspections for getting and keeping your car registered, required individual driving training, steeper penalties for safety offenses (including speeding when the limit is properly set), driver testing which includes a comprehensive road course, written test, parking lot test, and vehicle inspection.

Congestion: Has nothing to do with speed limits and everything to do with city planning, weather, traffic, time of day, demographics, urbanization, etc. etc. etc. In my commute every day, the speed limit is meaningless, you are either doing 15 or 80, often with large, seemingly random accelerations between. No change in speed limit is going to make an over-crowed road less croweded. No speed limit is going to encourage drivers to leave room for cars merging from on ramps, not tailgate, move right when not passing, or drive at an appropriate speed for the conditions. Only driver education and a change in culture can do that. Some changes can be made to our roads. Adaptive signage, like on the Autobahn, which adjusts to weather conditions, congestion, and even the percentage of trucks, but generally aims for high speed driving when the sun is out and the trucks are far and few between. Restricted/limited/or taxed inner city driving, London’s so called congestion charge will, could encourage mass transport. Adaptive lanes/shoulders/tolls on ring roads and roads entering and exiting the city. There is an answer, but it isn’t a lower speed limit, and will certainly cost more. Fixing the congestion problem and traffic flow problems will go further to reducing emissions than reducing speed limits ever will, just look at the differance between city and highway driving mpg estimates. Now apply that city number to all the time you sit in traffic. Remove all those hours spent sitting in traffic, and watch the air get cleaner. That is real change.

Results instantly: Bunk as well. From the Arizona DOT “[Nationwide] raising and lowering speed limits had little or no effect on speeds. Although maximum speed changes up to 3 mi/h (5 km/h) were observed at individual sites, the average change in the mean and 85th percentile speeds was less than 1 mi/h and similar to sites that were not changed.
However, studies in the USA and abroad generally show an increase in speeds when speed limits are raised on freeways. Changes in mean speeds ranging from 1 to 4 mi/h were observed when the speed limits in the United States were increased from 55 mi/h (89 km/h) to 65 mi/h (105 km/h) as shown in table 2.”
“Spitz (1984) reported that the 85th percentile speed of traffic increased less than 0.4 mi/h (0.6 km/h) in 40 zones where speed limits were raised in 10 California cities.”
“Dudek and Ulman (1986) found no significant changes in speeds at six sites in the urban fringe where speed limits were lowered from 55 to 45 mi/h (89 to 72 mi/h).”

As for the rest, Cars lasting longer, less road damage, fewer repairs, those are maintenance items, not speeding items. And the Yaris, Focus, Fit, Aveo, Crap I, Crap II, Crap Red, Crap Blue, may be at home in a 55mph world, but not my home.

You should be in Politics; Louisiana politics. However, I agree with most of your reasoning and arguments.

With respect to fatalities, please read the previous posts; the total fatalities in the US are the same as the mid fifites, when total miles driven was only 1/16 of what it is today. That “crap statistic” is a 93.75% (1-1/16)X100 reduction in the fatality RATE! Most of this is due to cars no longer being death traps without seat belts, some to cars being newer and more reliable (fewer thing breaking off, fewer flats), and the much better highways now that the we the complete interstate system.

The traffic accident rate is still high, but serious injuries are greatly reduced. In other words, drivers have not improved much! The US has some of the sloppiest driver testing programs in the civilized world. In Britainis is normal to fail once or twice before you pass, in spit of strenuous preparation. German driver tests are brutal!

With respect to congestion, this applies mostly to express way within 50 miles of urban areas, such as going into Detroit by I94. If 55 mph was enforced there, a monumental traffic jam would occur, as did in the 70s. I Germany imposed a 55 mph limit, highways would have to be exapanded by 25% at least and many 4 lane highways would have to be made into 6 lanes. Rougly speaking a 90 mph speed limit can handle 90/55=1.64, or 64% more traffic than a 55 mph limit. Also normally slow vehicles stay in the slow lane while fast one stay in the fast lane, making trafic flow smoothly.

So, as you correctly point out, better and more economical, but fast cars and much better drivers are the answer. A VW TDI diesel going 85 mph uses a lot less fuel than a dinosaur V8 SUV going 55, and makes much better use of highway space.

I don’t think 55 mph is a reality. I drive on a road that goes from 55 to 45 to 40… doesn’t matter people do 60-65, pass over double lines and into oncoming traffic.

For me, the tragedy is that we can’t slow down and smell the roses or observe a sunrise/sunset or laugh with our children. We’re always in such a hurry and worried about time/money. Sadly, even if it could be shown that the death rate would drop and pollution would drop with slower speeds, I don’t think people would change… too much power in the cars and in being ahead of just one more car.

“I’d have been there earlier, but I was behind a car with a trailer.”

SI system?

SI system = Le Syst?me International d’Unit?s = International System of Units

also known as the “metric system.”

ever herd of a street motorcycle they get 35mpg+ doing any speed plus there more fun than yor rolling egg shaped cars of today

  1. There has been a 16 fold increase in the miles traveled since the mid 50s, proving that cars and highways are much safer.

So does that then PROVE the driving over 55 is MORE dangerous. If cars and highways are safer and we’ve increased out driving mileage…yet accidents AREN’T going down…that must mean that driving OVER 55 is offsetting the improved safety in cars and highways.

  1. Lower speed limits have not proven to lower fatality rates by themselves. Driving 55 on an Interstate literally puts people to sleep.

Actually that’s been proven false. It’s NOT the speed it’s the long straight roads that put people to sleep. Roads that have curves keep people awake because they have to navigate them. Long straight roads put people to sleep no matter how fast or slow you drive.

  1. Countries with good road sytems such as Germany, Holland and France have 1/2 the fatality rates on expressways, in spite of much higher or no speed limits!!! These countries have very tough driver tests, annual inspection of vehicles, and a lot a ongoing driver public driver ed.

So is it the driving training/tests that’s decreasing accidents or the speed???

  1. None of these countries with high fuel and horsepower taxes has lowered speed limits to save on fuel because of the enormous ecopnonimc losses. (see #5)

So what…what does that mean???

  1. There is an enormous cost attached to driving excessively slow; wider roads are needed, time travelled could be used working, etc.

How much time do you actually save by driving 70 or 55 to work. If you live 20 miles from work…that’s a savings of less then 10 minutes…at MOST…

Good grief, with the potholes on I-75 around here, there is NO way you could turn it into an autobahn.

Now around Atlanta? People think they’re on the autobahn there, but they’re nowhere NEAR as safe or courteous as drivers on the autobahn actually are…

Or anywhere else…

Its the CARS that are getting better… I swear the drivers are worse with each passing day.

Mike, I was merely putting the 55mph fallacy in its proper perspective. Driver training is a major factor in keeping fatailities down in developed countries with good road systems. And it is he main difference in the US having twice the fatalities on good roads as other developed countries with much higher speed limits. Most modern highway systems are designed for 80mph travel with reasonably good cars. Driving excessively slow is very counter-productive.

On these posts we have heard previously that if we all drive heavy vehicles at 55 mph we will all be very safe and save fuel to boot. Wishful thinking indeed.

With respect to item 5, I use the garden hose analogy; you get more water through the hose if you run it faster. In another reply, I mention that a speed of 80 mph will allow roughly 80/55X100% or 45.5% more traffic to pass a certain point than a 55mph limit. This may not be applicable in New Hampshire, or in your circumstances, but all major highways near cities are already busy; slowing all traffic to 55mph will cause massive congestion. If Germany enacted a 55mph limit most of its already busy 4 lane highways would have to be widened to 6 lanes. These are hugh economic costs.

As Craig58 points out elsewhere, time is money, and those who drive a lot on their jobs would lose much valuable time. Thes are major economic losses; ask any bus or trucking company.

Hope this explains what some of us are trying to say.

As Craig58 points out elsewhere, time is money, and those who drive a lot on their jobs would lose much valuable time. Thes are major economic losses; ask any bus or trucking company.

True…but driving at higher speeds in heavier traffic will increase accidents exponentially. I have a long commute far longer then most…I don’t drive 55…I drive about 70…But as traffic increases (closer I get to Boston)…my speed decreases…Keeping safe distances between me and the vehicle in front keeps my speeds down to about 50 once I’m south of rt 128…If I maintained 70…I’d be drastically increasing my chances of getting in a accident. Widening roads may or may NOT make things better…Especially when you have exits every mile or half mile. Traffic entering and leaving at much slower speeds. For this kind of driving it’s far better to have lower speeds…NOT faster speeds.

Just to address the “economic losses” issues re: bus & trucking companies… folks should be aware that the AP just put out this story on truckers VOLUNTARILY slowing down to save fuel.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080322/ap_on_re_us/slower_truckers

I also agree that higher speed limits may not be appropriate for congested areas, it does not make sense to apply the same speed limit to Rt-128 in boston as I-70 in the middle of KS. A 55 mph limit may be appropriate in an urban area with exits every half mile, but it is very silly in the middle of the plains with light traffic and an exit every 20 miles. Also, the time saved on a typical NH to boston commute may only be 10 minutes, while it might save an hour across KS. That is the problem with national “one size fits all” type solutions. The folks who make laws might want to get west of the DC beltway a little more often.

"Just to address the “economic losses” issues re: bus & trucking companies… folks should be aware that the AP just put out this story on truckers VOLUNTARILY slowing down to save fuel.

http://new…r_truckers"

Good, that’s how it should work; as the price of fuel gets up to reasonable levels people will figure out how to reduce their individual consumption without any new laws.

Gas is expensive in Germany too,And they still have the autobon.

… and the per capita consumption of gasoline in germany is about 25% of the U.S.:

http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-292.html

I’m NOT for a NATIONAL limit…Just put the limits on areas around the cities…That alone would save MILLIONS per year…PROBLEM IS…MOST WOULD NOT OBEY IT…AND THE POLICE DON’T EVEN TRY…I’ve NEVER seen a cop catching speeders on I-93-South during morning rush hour. They are there in the North bound side…but not the south bound…And visa-versa in the afternoon (they are on the South bound side but NOT on the North bound side). Speed limit is 65…but MOST people are doing 70+…with a good portion doing 80+.

I stick by the argument that driving 55 IS SAFER AND WILL SAVE LIVES AND WILL DECREASE GAS USAGE…But it just Ain’t going to happen.

I think a better solution is to make more fuel efficient and safer vehicles…Far easier to change the car then to change people.

Craig; most interesting figures! Note that 2 comparable countries, Ausralia and Canada, both large and relatively rich countries, but with much smaller populations, and not an extensive rapid transit system compare very favorably with the US (latest consumption figures):

  1. Canada 1203.7
  2. Australia 907.7
  3. USA 1635.2

By rights, both Canada and Australia should have HIGHER consumption than the US, due to their sparse population, and in Canada’s case, a severe climate. From this you could conclude that the US is at least more wasteful than Canada by 35.8% and by 80.1% more wasteful than Australia in the use of gas.

Car ownership and familiy size are roughly equal in all 3 countries, as is suburban sprawl. So the differences are mainly the SIZE of vehicle and ENGINE SIZE. Miles travelled per person are about the same in Canada and the US. I don’t know about Australia. The use of diesel cars in all three countries is very low.

International environmental groups call both Australia and Canada wasteful in gasoline and other energy use. So, by this yardstick, the US is the ultimate energy glutton when it comes to gasoline. Finally, I can agree on something with George Bush.

Doc, what about the much larger population in the US compared to Canada/Australia? With the US having just over 300 million people, and Canada only just over 33 million, doesn’t that skew the numbers a bit?

If car ownership percentages (i.e. 50% of all families own 1.4 vehicles, or whatever the correct stats are) and family size are the same, wouldn’t Americans own about 10 times as many vehicles as us in Canada? Making the US consumption rate that much higher?

Maybe my math isn’t right, correct me if I’m wrong…trying to enjoy a margarita here and pretend it’s Spring while I watch snow accumulating outside…