2009 Saturn Outlook Stuck out of town

well, it went from not moving and sitting to moving. thats an improvement in my book

Thanks for the update OP. Hopefully current limp-mode problem will be resolved by your shop. Maybe they just forget to re-connect one of the connectors they needed to remove to make access for the work they did.

Another poster here has been sharing similar types of shop interactions, in that case evap system problem. But shop interaction w/customer seems to be similar , claimed fixes donā€™t take, code re-appears, etc. One of the problem with modern cars is they have become so complicated, it is hard for the shop to isolate the problem to a unique cause. Trial and error seems to have become the commonplace method.

As I said before, electrical! Check the ground connections! Is the fuel gauge acting up again? That will be the easiest problem to trace.

Duly noted lol.

It certainly is an improvement, unfortunately though I paid fix price.

Hereā€™s to hoping.

Touche

Understandable. As long as they fix the issue I already paid them to fix thatā€™s all Iā€™m worried about in the end. I just dropped it back off earlier at the shop. I told the guy up front it was throwing a p0658. He said thatā€™s a different code from the one they pulled which I found kind of interesting. I have the invoice from the shop I took it to before, prior to bringing it to this specialty transmission shop Iā€™m dealing with now. It actually says on the invoice from the other place that they pulled a p0658. So Iā€™m sitting here wondering, how did the first shop pull a p0658 before the car was ever worked on, how did the place that just got done ā€œfixingā€ it NOT pull the p0658 and finally how did I pull that same p0658 after it was ā€œfixedā€. Iā€™m not a mechanic donā€™t get me wrong but maybe it seems like a little bit of funny business is starting up. Or maybe Iā€™m looking too much into it.

Very good advice. I was able to get some model specific service data for this DTC. It suggests an open or short to ground as you suggest. Whatā€™s interesting though is that it also says ā€œthis fault is handled inside the TCM and no external circuits are involvedā€. That kind of makes me question if itā€™s possible to throw this code if for instance, there was a loose pin in the electrical connector outside of the transmission. I assume they check for things like that, afterall they made the call to replace the techm.

As far as the fuel gauge goes, that actually has seemed to be working properly so far which is weird because I only had them work on the transmission issue. Iā€™m guessing perhaps once it gets back down to the quarter tank area it will begin jumping around again like before.





The diagrams you posted unfortunately donā€™t clearly ID which is the ā€œdriver 1 circuitā€, but assuming it is pressure control solenoid valve 1 at the top left, if diagram is correct, the associated wiring looks to be entirely enclosed inside the transmission. That doesnā€™t imply transmission has to be completely disassembled to effect the repair, could require only removing the transmission pan for access to valve body, or may require removing the valve body from transmission, which might be p ossible without removing transmission from car. Iā€™m guessing something inside the solenoid is what is shorting out, and the repair is to replace the solenoid. The wires inside a solenoid can be very thin, so possible they could work ok at one temperature, and not at another, as the wireā€™s copper expands and contracts. Further complicating the diagnosis, the diagnostic code may only post as active under certain operating conditions.

The solenoids, TCM and the other electronics are integrated into one assembly and the components are not servicable individually according to what I understand. This entire assembly is what they said they replaced.

The transmission control module w/the solenoids replaced, and code for open/short circuit for solenoid 1 comes back? Thatā€™s a puzzle indeed. Maybe the problem isnā€™t the TCM. hmmm ā€¦ well, if G110 wasnā€™t making a good connection, that could show up as a solenoid open circuit. What else could be wrong? B+ power to TCM, IGN Relay to TCM , both seem worth checking. Thereā€™s several communication paths involved, but seems unlikely miscues on those would confuse the diagnostic system into thinking thereā€™s a solenoid problem. Other possibility is a software problem, or system initialization problem. Maybe some sort of system reset has to be applied after replacing TCM, otherwise it wonā€™t forget the prior diagnostic code. .

I got it back friday and took it on the highway. Drove it again today earlier. Seems good so far. They said there was a code for a speed sensor and went ahead and replaced that. Not sure but I think they replaced the techm again.
The only thing is however there seems to be a shudder that comes and goes when going from 2nd to 3rd, could also be just when it goes uphill because just about every time it did it I was going uphill. The purge valve is stuck open so I guess thatā€™s considered a vacuum leak right? The brake pedal seems a bit stiffer than Iā€™d like so I suppose this open valve could rob the booster a bit of vacuum.

This is the part currently installed. It has the flat hole through it with a metal bracket that mounts it.
OIP (3)
This is the part I want to replace it with. It has a bolt that looks like it mounts directly in the same direction itā€™s installed. Although itā€™s listed as compatible with this vehicle. Will it work? More Information for ACDELCO 12690512 (rockauto.com)

The purge line connections are different, the lower line wonā€™t connect.

If you mean the evap system purge valve is stuck open, thatā€™s sort of like a small vacuum leak, but if it caused a problem the most likely driving symptom would be that the engine would run rough or hard to start, noticed most immediately on cold starts after re-filling the tank in slow speed driving. The purge valve is supposed to open only in certain situations (e.g. engine at full operating temp, above a certain vehicle speed etc), in order to draw any stored gasoline vapors in the canister and burn them in the engine. Evap system tests wouldnā€™t pass with pure valve stuck open of course, and would usually throw a diagnostic code and turn on CEL.

The shudder from 2nd to 3rd might a problem with the transmissionā€™s lock-up torque converter. Search this forum for posts about ā€œTCSā€ or ā€œtorque converter shudderā€.

Thereā€™s a code for flow during non purge and itā€™s hard to start after getting gas. I disconnected the hose and could feel strong vaccuum immediately after starting the engine.

Yes, thatā€™s expected b/c that hose is connected to engineā€™s air intake. But the amount of flow through that hose is limited (when it is properly connected) b/c of the resistance to air flow through the canister. So while it is technically a vacuum leak, itā€™s probably a relatively small one.

One experiment you could try to see how much vacuum leak it is, disconnect the hose and plug it so then you know thereā€™s no vacuum leak via that path into the engine, then you could test if that has any effect on the brake pedal feel.

Thatā€™s actually what I was thinking about earlier. To clarify though the vaccuum was coming through the nipple on the valve where the hose connects. I suppose I can just plug the valve then let the hose sit.