2009 RAV4, after replacing the drive belt, the break switch gone bad, then the O2 sensor gone bad

The brake light switch is located about 12" above the brake pedal, I don’t see how it could be damage while working on the engine or differential. Toyota brake light switches fail, I replace about 5 per year.

What was the oxygen sensor fault code? How will anyone know why it failed, maybe the guy hit it with a hammer. You need to ask questions before the repair, ask to see the failed part.

Two hours labor to diagnose and replace the oxygen sensor is a bit high but if customers accept these high bids those mechanics will continue to give high estimates.

Mr. Volvo V70:
Thank you for pointing it out.

Mr. Nevada_545:

Thank you for your comments.

May I ask, on average, how old are the Toyota brake light switch that you have replaced?

The car was running perfectly until I took it to the dealership for maintenance work.
I bought the life time oil change program from them. Originally, I went in for the 40,000 miles oil exchange. Instead, I got all the repairs done as listed in my original post here.

May I ask, will the engine lost its power while I was driving on the high way if the brake light switch failed?

I did asked questions, but, the service manager kept saying the failure of oxygen sensor has nothing to do with the repairs (replaced drive belt, serviced the differential, flush coolant and etc.) they’ve just done.

I’ll use the Mechanics list in this web site next time.

Your suggestions and comments are highly appreciated.

Concur w/Nevada, the brake light switch isn’t related to the other repairs. In fact I suspect you already had that problem when you drove it to the shop, but didn’t realize it. The shop – by spotting it – may have saved you from an expensive “no stop lights” traffic citation.

An O2 sensor can be damaged if fluids are spilled on it or if it is accidentally hit with something or levered. So it’s possible the O2 sensor was damaged during the repair, but unfortunately it’s not possible to say that with any certainty. O2 sensor codes are asked about here all the time, that’s a very common code area, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard a claim that the O2 code was caused by a damaged sensor due to a repair.

It is unusual for an O2 sensor to fail at 40K. Many last the life of the car. I changed mine out proactively at around 200K on my Corolla. I expect it was actually still working fine. So an O2 sensor failure is a little unusual at 40K. But still, such a failure is far from impossible.

One thing you might check, certain emissions equipment has longer warranty periods than the main warranty that comes with a new car. The O2 sensor is part of the emissions system so you might ask if that extended emissions warranty applies. I think if it did, they would have given you the warranty discount to you already. It’s probably in their computer system. But no harm to ask.

Don’t know about what the 4-wheel dash warning light is for on a RAV 4. What does the owner’s manual say? It’s possible the service may have confused one of the computers. But the light is now off, right? So whatever it was, it’s working now.

Were the maintenance and repairs necessary? Belt replacment and scheduled cooling system service and fluid replacement for the 4WD system are definitely necessary. 4WD vehicles are almost always more expensive to maintain and repair than 2WD vehicles. I know this for a fact, b/c I have both kinds. The 4WD vehicle I own requires considerably more $$ per mile driven in repairs and maintenance than the 2WD. And as fair warning to you, this gets worse the older the 4WD vehicle gets. Brake light switches are a common failure item. I replaced the one on my truck a couple years ago. And that wasn’t the first time I had to replace it. I’ve already covered the O2 sensor situation above.

Toyota unreliable? All cars are inherently unreliable simply b/c they contain so many moving parts. Toyota’s are thought by most car owners who’ve owned them to be as reliable or more reliable than most other makes. Newer cars – because buyers demand so many cool features and modern conveniences, new federal safety, emissions, and mpg requirements – newer cars in general seem to be less reliable than cars of the 1990’s era, adjusting for mileage and age of course.

If reliability is a concern to you, next time you purchase a car check to see what Consumer’s Reports says about that make and model. Beyond that, only buy features that are a necessity to you. Air conditioning systems, automatic transmissions, non-factory sound systems, security systems, automatic window and door locks, 4WD/all-wheel drive, tire pressure monitoring systems, and key-less lock systems w/fobs are all common failure items reported here. Best to avoid those unless you need them.

“unless you need them”

I don’t think you can buy a car in the USA without AC anymore

Most cars come with an auto trans

I’d say well over 50% of cars come with power windows and locks

All new cars and trucks smaller than duallies have TPMS

Many vehicles . . . most, perhaps . . . have at least a very basic, factory anti-theft system, nowadays. Even the ones without a key fob. What I mean is, if the proper key is not recognized, you won’t be starting the engine

The most basic new vehicle is much more advanced, and has many more features, versus the most basic vehicle of 10 or 15 years ago

I see these brake light switch failures at 50,000 to 100,000 miles.
There was a campaign to add software to the engine control module to disable the accelerator if the brake pedal and accelerator were applied at the same time;

LSC BST
As part of the settlement described above, Toyota will install Smart Stop Technology on the above listed model
and model year vehicles. This feature will cut engine power in case of simultaneous application of both the
accelerator and brake pedal at certain speeds and in certain driving conditions.

That is why a brake switch failure caused your vehicle to not accelerate.

Are you sure the 4 wheel lock light came on? Normally when the check engine light comes on the VSC light is lit, they are similar. If the 4 wheel lock light comes on, push the button to turn it off.

I live in a dry climate, we don’t change transfer case and differential oil on cars this often, trucks are different. The next time you are offered a list of maintenance or repairs take it home and take time to think it over.

Mr. GeorgeSanJose:

Thank you for your comments.

The brake light was ON even after I fully parked my car and took the key out of the ignition switch. This condition had never happened until I brought the car back after the first repair (replaced the drive belt, service the 4 wheel drive system and flush coolant) . In addition, the engine lost its power and failed to respond to the gas pedal while I was driving on the highway (very scary!). That’s why I brought the car back to the dealership for the second time.

The problem is not that the brake light was off. After diagnosed, they claimed the “brake switch” has gone bad. According to them, the car has an integrated “brake safe system”. The failed “brake switch” will cut off the engine power and cause the engine unresponsive to the gas pedal.

The drivability problem is explained by Nevada above. That’s apparently to be expected if the brake switch fails in this model. It has to do with that problem people reported several years ago, this was a major news item. They said their cars would keep going even if they took their foot off the gas, and wouldn’t stop no matter what they did. Remember that? Disabling the accelerator in certain braking conditions was done by the manufacturer to address that problem apparently.

The brake switch – if it is like on my cars – is located by and activated by the brake pedal, inside the passenger compartment. That’s why it is unlikely the shop would have damaged it while doing work in the engine compartment.

I’m not sure why the brake light would be on with the engine off, unless you mean the rear brake lights at the back of the car, which come on when you press on the brake. On my cars those will light even with the engine off and the key removed. So it wouldn’t be surprising they’d be on at all times if your brake switch was bad. You could try it in your driveway as an experiment. See if they come on even with the engine off and the key out of the ignition when you press on the pedal.

If the brake light that was on was the one of the dashboard, every car is different on how that light works. It’s possible that’s the way it works on your car when there’s a problem with the brake switch. I presume you noticed this after you’d left the shop after the first repair, right? When the dashboard brake light is on for an unexplained reason, the owner – assuming braking capability appears to be ok – should take the car to a shop asap as it could be unsafe to drive.

It’s always a good idea when picking your car up from the shop to check all the way around the car for anything unusual that wasn’t there before, light scratches, lights on or off. Do the same inside, especially the dashboard lights. Make sure they behave the same as they did before, when sitting in the car with the doors closed but no key in the ignition, with the key turned to “on” but not started, and with the engine started. Doing that can prevent you from driving off with some problem remaining that the shop needs to fix. Best of luck.

Mr.GeorgeSanJose:

I guess I did not make myself clear. Yes, the brake light that I mentioned is the one at the back of the car. This brake light was on even I fully parked the car and take the key off was the first time I noticed it. This issue went away, after they “replaced the broken brake switch”.

Yes, if the brake switch is broken it could cause the rear brake lights to be on all the time, even with the key out of the ignition, parked in the driveway w/nobody in the car.

Thank you, Mr. GeorgeSanJose.
I highly appreciate your comments and suggestions.
How did you know so much about car?

Thank you Mr. Nevada_545.
I did not aware of the LSC BST. Thank you for this piece of info. Now the saying about the “integrated brake safe system” of the service manager at the dealership starts to make sense to me.

This 4-wheel light was not on when I picked up the car.
This 4-wheel light suddenly was turned on after a few days of driving and I did not touch the 4-wheel lock switch.

Again, they claimed it was caused by the failure of one of the O2 sensor.
Now, this warning light no longer on after the so-called repair.

HowJay, you asked how George could know so much. If you feel comfortable on this board, hang around and read, and in a year or two, you will be surprised how much you have learned. Even without being a mechanic as many here are.

HowJay, re: How do I learn about car repairs? … mostly I learn about by listening to Car Talk on NPR, and by participating here. I probably have the least actual shop experience of the regulars here, at least w/regard to fixing whatever car the customer drives in. I’m not a pro mechanic at all, just an amateur driveway diy’er and have kept my own cars diagnosed, maintained, and repaired myself over many years. One of my cars is a Corolla, so I have that as Toyota experience. Years ago I took an adult night class at a local high school where I could drive my own car into an actual auto repair shop with lifts and I could use all the tools and diagnostic equipment and do maintenance and repair on my own car, well whatever could be done in the 3 hour time limit each week. Most important, when I came up against something I didn’t know how to do, I could ask an instructor for advice. That was important for getting started as when you run up against a seemingly impossible problem and discover there’s a simple sol’n available if you know who to ask, it builds confidence

@GeorgeSanJose

Even though you aren’t a pro wrencher, you seem to stick to the basics and use common sense

A lot of guys . . . even the pros . . . get themselves into trouble when they forget those things

Such as reading the owner’s manual and/or service manual, to figure out how something is actually supposed to function, as opposed to making assumptions, which may not be correct

Such as checking if the vehicle has sufficient fuel to start

Such as CTFFF

One of my friend suggested me to attend a evening community college auto repair class; however, due to my work hour and long work commute, it is just impossible for me to do it.

I thought by paying a little bit more to get a reliable car can reduce the headache. I also tried to cultivate a long term relationship with the local Toyota dealership by buying cars from them, buying life oil change program from them, and always take my cars to them for maintenance work. It, now, seems that is a wishful thinking. They will cheat as possible as they can.

I am wondering is there any way a consumer can do to protect themselves from the cheating of a dealership?

First of all I don’t think you were cheated. All vehicles can have problems so think about buying new what you can actually afford with warranty. Also it appears you need to communicate with the repair service better. Why would you purchase a lifetime oil change program when you don’t even know if you will have that type of vehicle a lifetime? The way dealerships are bought and sold these days relationship means nothing.

Count me in, as well

I don’t think you were cheated

Buying a lifetime maintenance agreement will not prevent things from breaking

Even reliable vehicles will need repairs

Hi all,

After one week, The brake light at the back of the car is on again.
I am going to drive the car to the highway to see if the engine will lose power again.

If the same problem come back, should I bring the car back to the dealer or should I find an independent mechanics?

Do you think it is a good idea to drive the vehicle on the highway with this problem? You might make it back home but other drivers won’t know when you are stopping if your brake lights are always on.

Take your car back to the dealer, they shouldn’t charge you to check a repeat concern. If it isn’t repaired for free get some advice or take the car to a different repair shop.