Referring To The Camshaft Gear TSB, You Exclaimed And Asked, “The dealer said he will try to have Toyota pick up the tab, but apparently this is a $3500 job (!???)”
No, I don’t think it is. I read the TSB. It requires few parts and not much labor (1.5 hours under warranty - more no doubt, out of warranty).
You need to be sure the dealer is telling you that performing the TSB will solve your rattle and you need to be sure what the $3500 estimate covers. I think there’s a communication gap there, somewhere. The estimate may cover something beyond or other than what’s in that TSB. Do you know for certain what the estimate covers ?
Give the part numbers (4 numbers for five parts) to a Toyota Parts guy or show him the TSB and get parts prices. Then with the TSB, inquire how much labor to install them after the vehicle is out of warranty. Call another dealer and get a quote.
Actually, Some Manufacturers Sometimes Don’t Compensate Technicians Fairly For Repairs Done Under Warranty. Customers Usually Compensate Technicians Fairly For Their Labor.
Therefore, Warranty Labor Cost Is Usually Less Than Customer Paid Labor For A Similar Job.
There are differences in all aspects of the monetary side of a repair when it comes to customer pay vs. warranty.
First, the parts markup is very limited. This is generally held to 25% at most and if a car maker has to remiburse a lot of the same parts under warranty they generally cut the dealer cost on that part quite a bit. In other words, if a dealer pays 50 dollars for a part they would get that amount + 25%. When Toyota has to eat a lot of those parts the dealer cost may all of a sudden drop to 10 bucks. They have it figured out and the dealer gets hosed.
When it comes to labor not only does Toyota (and all others) pay much less per hour they also pay much fewer hours as warranty times are nowhere near real world figures.
Those labor hours are computed by people in buildings who have no clue as to what’s involved in a labor operation and have never turned a wrench in their life.
The operative word for warranty hours is “joke”.
On my 4Runner, I have the X-REAS system, which cross-links the shocks to prevent body roll. It works very well, but the shocks are starting to show leakage. When all 4 are just about done, and I have to replace them, I’ll have the dealer do it. Reason: The whole system needs to be bled, and balanced, after the shocks are changed (and they ain’t cheap!). The mechanic gets time to change the shocks, but nothing for the remainder of the system, which apparently can take a few hours to get right.
So mostly, I’d agree. Sometimes it goes the other way, though. Not as often, but sometimes.
If you want some advice, try changing the brand of oil filter you’re using, as I recommended. It worked for me.
I also wouldn’t go 7,000 miles without changing oil unless you’ve had an analysis done and can verify that the viscosity and additive pack are in good shape, or unless you drive all highway miles.
Have you verified that the engine has sludge, or is it just speculation based on the startup rattle?
Chase, Regarding Warranty Paid Labor Being Lower And Your Commenting, “So mostly, I’d agree. Sometimes it goes the other way, though. Not as often, but sometimes.” . . .
This does happen, but very, very infrequently. We had a technician at a dealer where I worked who was more surgeon than mechanic. He had dual tool boxes (roller cabs, no chests) with flat work surfaces on each. He’d quickly roll them into strategic positions at the beginning of every job. He was heavily invested in the best specialized tools and knew exactly where they were. He wasted no time B.S.ing and didn’t even make any wasted movements, even finding ways of getting parts quicker. He’d find every shortcut and advantage that he could for doing frequent repairs. He’d time repairs.
He took advantage of the fact that warranty repairs could be frequent and repetative. He actually volunteered for warranty repairs that others dreaded and he got them. This worked to his advantage when work was slow and these “bad” jobs were still shoved in his direction, not to mention that the Service Director saw to it that he was taken care of.
If your engine has a rattle due to crankshaft bearings, chain tensioner, valve lifter, or what have you no oil filter in the world is going to cure that problem.
Lexus IS250/350 and GS350 have the same cam gear noise on start up, I hear that noise amost every day. Oil if pumped into the intake cam gear to control valve timing, the oil will sometimes drain out of the cam gear over night causing a loose condition in the gear and a rattle on start up. This occurs on vehicles of loyal cutomers with clean oil and Toyota filters so I think the only way to fix this is with a new cam gear.
Please, Can Somebody Explain To Me How Replacing A Camshaft Gear Assembly, Paying Only 1.5 Hours Labor Under Warranty, Generate A $3500 “Customer Pay” Estimate ?
“I read the actual 3 page TSB. Something’s not adding up, here. The engine does not get removed. The timing cover doesn’t even come off. I know warranty repairs are a little light on labor, but . . . $3500 ? . . .
. . . Information is missing.”
OK, thanks for all the response, I am going back to the dealer and will ask some hard questions based on your feedback (i.e. detailed estimate of parts and labor).
I do drive 90-percent highway miles BTW.
I’ve been using WIX and my car does not have start-up rattle when using this brand.
Not that any of these filters wouldn’t do an adequate job of protecting an engine, but some are clearly built better than others—an interesting link if you’re curious:
Based on the dissection, Purolator seems to make a good filter…