Yup, that changes everything. If the belt is moving, the crank is turning, and if the crank is turning, the starter motor is working.
worn out engine? check compression to find out. I admit that checking compression on a wankle is something I’ve never done, but I’m sure a maintenance manual will provide a procedure.
Lack of spark? Check for spark. You can use a spare spark plug, a timing light, or the method of choice.
I would expand “lack of fuel” to include “lack of proper metering”. For a cold engine, that means everything necessary for proper metering. I’m totally unfamiliar with how the wankle’s engine controls are set up, but I’m going to assume it uses a temp sensor, throttle position sensor, probably a cold start injector, some form of metering incoming air volume, something to detect the speed and position of the crankshaft.
Since I’m going to assume no maintenance was really done on this car I’m going to assume that the coils are out on it. I will do a spark test as soon as I can. Since we plan getting rid of the car after its back up and running Im going to spend as little as I can since this is her car and not mine and her money being spent to fix it. I won’t be able to buy a service manual but I’m sure I can find a guide to do a fuel test. I will continue to post results.
Place a compression test in your plans, that engine spins to fast and easy. Rather than spend money on suspect parts like coils you should confirm if the engine has compression or not.
Something I experienced with my non-starting 1991 RX-7 could be a no cost repair. When you turn the ignition switch to “on” can you hear the fuel pump run for a couple of seconds? I could not hear mine. I turned of the switch, folded back the rearmost carpet, removed the oval shaped access panel, and discovered the fuel pump electrical connector was not fully seated. I pushed it together, turned switch to “on”, could hear the pump, and car started normally. I again turned off the switch. The connector had a problem staying tight. I cleaned the contacts, pushed it together, and secured it with a very small zip tie I had on hand. When I sold the car 5 years later I had experienced no further starting problems.
There’s a recall and updated starting procedure that Mazda even sent owners a video to watch. I left mine in the glovebox when I traded it but I can recall some of it. How are you trying to start it? Rocketman
@sgtrock21 I will look into it if it seems there is no fuel.
@rocketman ive just been trying to start it as normal. When I get the chance I am going to run a spark test, fuel test, and compression test.
Went to do a spark test and there was a strong smell of gas. Turns out the engine is flooded which is apparently really easy to do with these cars. I am in the process of purging the gas out by removing the fuel pump fuse and cranking it a hand full of times then putting the fuse back in and trying to start it. After putting the fuse back in it seems like it wants to start which is further than I’ve been with it. I pulled the spark plugs and am letting it air out over night.
My experience with rotory engines is that they tend to flood the engine with gas. The fuel pump electrical switched off that way was probably intentional.
heavymetal,
You have come across the most common problem of rotories. The other way to start them usually is flooring the accelerator. This should cut off the fuel injection during startup. also while you have the spark plugs out, check the compression on each rotor. you need to get 3 bumps from each rotor. If you get 1 high bump and 2 low bumps, an apex seal has probably blown. This would end up causing your flooding engine. Low compression due to carbon buildup also would cause the gas flooded engine.
Only true solution would be to rebuild if the problem is low compression or blown apex seal. Also, you would need help from people more experience with rotories. Try rx8club.com. You would get more relevant advice than a general car forum can provide
If you get the car started, do not shut it down until the engine is warmed up. If your car restarts after its warm, it should be okay and was probably flooded due to early shutdown.
There can be one problem with a make specific forum sometimes. What you get is that a number of posters there who change their own oil, spark plugs, or brake pads portray themselves as experts and sometimes dispense some really off the wall advice.
This is especially true of some of the import forums. The wheat has to be separated from the chaff.
The OP states there appears to be a flooded condition. That could point to a fuel pressure regulator problem, ECM problem, low compression, or even a lack of ignition spark.
This problem started out as a non-working starter motor complaint. The starter appears to work. The unknown basic right now is whether there’s a spark or not.
Well, if heavymetal tests the compression of a rotary like a piston engine with a tester that locks on max compression, he might get good compression on both rotors, but miss the fact that only 1 of 3 faces would have good compression. That is like having a V6 with 2 dead pistons. There are specialized procedures needed in this regard and a piston head would not have caught that error and continued working under the premiss that the engine has good compression. Rx forums would not be like Riceboy type import forums in this regard.
I have recommended a good place to start since it looks like heavymetal has reached the limits of the knowledge available here and has described symptoms that resemble those of a rotary engine nearing the end of it’s useful life.
Point taken. There’s a lot of good advice to be found on this forum but there has to be a bit of a foundation to work with to be able to make even a half-educated guess at the problem.
We were banging heads trying to sort out why a good starter on a good flywheel was not rotating the engine and it appears the engine was rotating.
We were then at the point where the spark plugs were wet and the engine tries to start. Granted, there could be a major engine fault but there are other things that will cause wet plugs and no start.
I just hate to see the engine condemned when the possibility of a much less serious cause could be behind the problem; say a weak or non-existent spark.
I used to work for a large multi-line dealer and one of their lines was Mazda. My area was other brands but my co-worker/friend handled most of the Mazdas and I only did some overflow if the situation required it. My knowledge of them is somewhat skimpy but I do remember rotaries suffering rich running/plug fouling problems (based on cursing from my co-worker and lunchtime war story swapping) and in very few instances was it an engine fault.
Second attempt: I took the spark plugs out and cleaned them. Let them sit over night again. With the fuel pump fuse out and the plugs out I cranked the engine for about 4 seconds and waited 6 then cranked again. I did this for about a minute and took a break, then did it again. Put the plugs and fuse back in and started on the second try. I let it run up to temp and then some. Lots of white smoke came out the tail pipe for about 7 minutes, then ran clean. I put the tire back on (where the plugs are) and took it off the jack stands. I was going to start it back up and test drive it around the block but it wouldn’t start. I am going to let it cool down and try to start it again. This was also a problem before this flood. It still doesn’t want to start when the engine is hot. Was a starter issue from what I understand but the new starter is installed. As for the compression test I have a friend that has a tester and he will be bringing it over this weekend. Also to add my gf says the guy she bought it from said he had just replaced the plugs/wires/coils.
Another edit: It did start after letting it cool down for about an hour. I test drove it around the block and it seems to also have a transmission problem as well, it spudders and makes a clanky noise when trying to shift at certain times. If i slow down and then speed up like coming around a corner it doesn’t want to shift correctly. I hope she can sell it for at least what she paid for it but these are problems I am not going to deal with. This is not my car and the main thing was to get it to start so it would sell to someone else who would be willing to deal with all that mess. Thank you all so much for your input. Personally, after reading about “hot no start” and the fact that this car wasn’t taken that well care of, with almost 150,000 miles on it, it was never taken in for the 8year/100,000 mile warranty for replacing the engine that mazda offered for this vehicle I would say it is a dying engine. That is just my opinion. But once again let me extend a sincere thank you for everyone’s input that lead me in the right direction to get this thing at least started! It is after all what i came here for.
Hard to start when hot, is the 1st sign of low compression on a rotary. This is usually due to carbon buildup. HM, just mentioned this is a recent purchase by the gf. I suspect the last owner sold it cheap to unload his problems to someone else. Im not sure about the tranny problem, but it looks like the car has more problems than it is worth. If the rest of the car is still clean, it may be a candidate for a swap.
At present, 2004-2006 Rx8 are in the mileage range where the original engines normally fails. If you look at prices and compare to 350z the prices are usually $5000 lower. For 2008 and newer, the prices track much closer. This is because Rx8 engines are failing and the owners are choosing to unload rather than rebuild.
HM,
Also on the compression test, look at the tester and make sure you have it where it does not lock to the maximum pressure. Look at the gauge when the engine is being rotated. you need to see consistent bumps. 3 high bumps means the pressure on that rotor is good. Also, you have noticed that you will have to repeat the test when the engine is hot.
Hey guys, I joined this discussion because I was having the same problem. I changed the starter and still the same free spinning sound. But I had a friend watch to see if the belt was turning and it was. With says to me that the flywheel is being contacted. So, I returned the starter and bought a new battery, and apparently the problem is fixed. I think that the problem was the battery had enough juice to turn the starter but not fire the coil or plugs. So you hear the starter spinning and no fire. And yes it did sound like it was free spinning and not engaging. Then when you turn the key back you still hear a light spinning noise. For me new battery fixed the issue. So there you go I hope that helps.
Reviving this post in case someone else runs into this issue. The reason your new starter wasn’t working is because that starter is meant for an 06-11 automatic rx8 with the 6 port engine. The 04-05 4 port automatic uses a different starter. The starter gear alignment differs between the two preventing it’s use on the 4 port automatic.