The regulator is a good thought, and might stop electrical activity completely if it were totally open. I’ve attached a basic schematic for you just as an FYI. The schematic shows the regulator built into the alternator assembly, as is common in modern setups, but don’t let that “throw” you. The basic circuit will be the same.
http://www.familycar.com/Classroom/charging.htm
Getting it checked can’t hurt.
Thank you so much for the link. I will study it. I will replace the voltage regulator as the terminals appear rusted. It may be ‘original’ equipment. I will update as soon as I get this done, probably several hours from now. Gotta find the part first! Thanks again.
I determined what the voltage regulator is and found a replacement; however, Auto Zone personnel told me that would not be the problem. Sold me a ‘tester’ of sorts to determine where hot is and where ground may be; a simple device.
With the explanation I got from the Auto Zone guy, I am now suspicious of the starter solenoid which sits on top the starter. Any thoughts on that?
The other thought is that it could be the ignition switch, but the lights used to come on regardless of the position or use of the ignition switch. Everything went dead completely, except the battery. A total die-off in an instant.
what motor do you have? I’ll send you your wiring diagram, or attach it here?
It is a straight-line six-cylinder but I don’t know the actual size. I believe it could be a 235(?) cubic inch but there’s no indication on the engine. The former owner swapped out the original long ago. Single-barrel down-draft carb. Definitely a ‘no-frills’ setup. I have attached three pictures taken today. Does that help or do you need more information? Thank you very much for your help (and that goes for everyone!) !!
The photos are great. It’s been quite a ahile since I’ve seen that much airspace in an engine compartment. I love it.
I blew up the photos and tried to find the engine ground strap/wire to look at its condition. It is part of the circuit. I couldn’t find it in th ephotos. Have you checked it?
Yes there is a lot of space in there. When I have worked on the engine in the past, I have been able to “comfortably” crawl inside to do work. As for the ground strap, I assume you mean the ground wire from the -neg side of the battery to the engine block? Other than removing it from the battery and ensuring that the connector was in good shape I have not checked it any further. I could replace it as well just to eliminate it from consideration. Worth doing? Budget is tight but worth the buy if it helps. I draped it over the fender to give a better look, and in addition there is a small length of red wire which attaches at the battery post as well and grounds to the front cross member/fender area. Its poking around the side of the battery at the moment.
I studied the material you attached and looked up on the “parts” link for my truck per their instructions and what they show for a replacement part doesn’t look anything like what I have. Now I am not certain that I have actually removed the voltage regulator. I am attaching a picture of it and perhaps you can identify what part it is? The black box has no lettering or identifying marks. The smaller aluminum-looking box next to it is the horn relay (I believe).
What I removed was indeed the voltage regulator. No replacement required, just clean the contacts and reinstall. Now I am suspicious of the starter solenoid which sits on top the starter. The odd thing is that there is no power anywhere except in the battery. Lights used to come on regardless of the use of ignition switch. I am still at a loss to know what could have happened.
You are correct. The idea was to ensure that the engine and the chassis were grounded. Sometimes these ground strap connections become corroded and break, opening the circuit up.
Regarding your earlier comment about “no replacement needed, just clean the contacts” on the regulator, I’d be wary of assuming that. As you can see in the schematic, the voltage regulator contains both internal components and internal circuits and connections. Vintage '64, the wiring is probably a PC board, but could be hard wiring. The regulator is a part of the circuit, and an open could cut all power.
I’d not consider the starter solenoid to be a possibility. An open in the solenoid would prevent it from engaging the starter motor to the flywheel and from turning the starter motor, but would not prevent all the other circuits from working. The solenoid and starter circuits are not normally enabled when the car is running.
One more point, don’t be concerned if the replacement regulator looks different. Circuitry technology has changed so much over the years that I’d expect it to.
And the ignition switch is easy to check. Simply disconnect the battery and check for continuity from the battery to the starter motor relay when the key is turned. Don’t expect any on the motor itself, because without the relay solenoid energized the contacts that enable the starter motor circuit (located in the starter assembly) will not close. But there should be continuity from the battery cable to the solenoid through the ignition switch.
I just ordered the voltage regulator and it will be here tomorrow. I’ll install that and toss the old one; hook everything back up and see what happens and let you know. I will check for juice going from the battery to the starter. I (unfortunately) don’t know how to test for continuity though I know what it is. Just don’t know how to use the gear to do that. Thanks for all your advice. I’ll post more as I have more.
For some unknown reason, I only get these posts after they are 2-3 days old.Re-check your fuses with a test light.Glass fuse elements can go bad underneath the end caps. A visual inspection is no good.Re-check all fuses and fuseable links again.Its possible your ignition switch has failed. Everything goes through the ignition switch. Get a flashlight and go exploring under the dash for a wire that was “fixed”. You should have power at the ignition switch,and positive post of the alternator,starter solenoid and with key on, at the starter relay and positive post of the coil.Key in start position at small solenoid wire.Is the red alternator wire rubbing the motor mount? It looks that way in the picture. What are the non-factory wires going to the starter/ignition relay?The silver box above the voltage regulator{Big red wires with yellow crimp connectors].Do you have a toggle or push button switch somewhere that you forgot to mention? That relay is probably your problem .Did the smoke come out of it?[Is it fried?]I have replaced many of those.Some of those relays are on the top of the left fender well, but that relay looks like it. Its been a long time since I worked on one of those trucks.
Although it is rare, a failed ignition condensor will keep your motor from running. I skimmed over the posts and it’s not quite clear to me if your starter motor is turning over the engine or not.
Checking for spark with old motors is easy. Pull the center wire from the distributor and position the metal end about 1/4" from the block or other metal. Don’t touch the end; hold the wire by the insulation. Have an assistant run the starter while you watch for sparks. If you have a little gray hair you can do all of this yourself with the ignition switch on and then jumpering the correct connections on the starter solenoid.
The 10 gauge wire going from the positive post to the firewall bulk head connector is you power to the whole truck.
Headlights and everything else, It is main power to your fuse box.
You will have a Batt terminal on the fuse box, that has to be battery voltage or you will have no power. It is an empty terminal ACC should be next to it.
You really need to use a test light and follow the 10 gauge wire coming off the pos terminal all the way if inside you don’t have power at the Batt term inside as well as the other fuses.
The power to your coil comes out of the bulk head connector.
The only power that doesn’t come out of there should be the Bat term on the alternator and the pos cable that goes to the starter motor.
I see that 10 gauge wire just flying in the breeze.
I also thought I saw what looked like a circuit breaker next to where the regulator was, that maybe for just the starter.
Where do those red wires go to and it there power there.
I think the 10 gauge wire you are referring to is the ground wire from the battery to the engine block. As for the circuit breaker thing next to where the voltage regulator was I believe that is the horn relay at least that’s how it seems labeled on the schematic. Those red wires run from under the dash (I believe) to that relay. There is absolutely no power anywhere in the entire system at this point. No lights, nothing at all except the battery (which is new). I just got a new voltage regulator and going to install it and hook everything back up and see what happens. However, I don’t have any expectations.
Installed the voltage regulator and it may have had an effect. Afterwards I started testing for power using a simple ground/live tester with a light in the handle. There’s power to the starter, power to the alternator, and some power in the cab, especially the gauges (after-market type mounted under the dash), but very minimal power to one fuse in the fuse box (I have replaced all the fuses with new). I have attached a picture of 2 molded-plug connections that I unplugged and tested, then plugged back in firmly. Now I have the cab light, the parking lights with rear tail lights but no headlights although the ‘high beam’ indicator in the dash works as does the floor-mounted switch to dim the lights. Tail lights work as well with the light switch in the ‘headlight’ position. Most of the fuses (since I diddled the plug) seem to have power. Now when I try the ignition key, a red indicator light comes on indicating my attempt, but nothing at the starter. I don’t know if this picture will give an ideas but now it seems that perhaps ‘whatever’ is wrong may be in the cab under the dash. I have no idea what’s there but it looks like wire-spaghetti.
Where would I find the ignition condenser? Is it on the distributor? As for the engine running, it (as well as all electrical systems) simply stopped. Regardless of the position of the ignition key, the lights no longer work nor is there any ‘click’ when trying the ignition key. So testing for spark is not an option yet. And yes, I do have gray hair and it took 62 years to grow it. I have a new voltage regulator to install as part of the process of elimination of “possibles.” I’ll do that and post the results.
Installed the voltage regulator and it may have had an effect. Afterwards I started testing for power using a simple ground/live tester with a light in the handle. There’s power to the starter, power to the alternator, and some power in the cab, especially the gauges (after-market type mounted under the dash), but very minimal power to one fuse in the fuse box (I have replaced all the fuses with new). I have attached a picture of 2 molded-plug connections that I unplugged and tested, then plugged back in firmly. Now I have the cab light, the parking lights with rear tail lights but no headlights although the ‘high beam’ indicator in the dash works as does the floor-mounted switch to dim the lights. Tail lights work as well with the light switch in the ‘headlight’ position. Most of the fuses (since I diddled the plug) seem to have power. Now when I try the ignition key, a red indicator light comes on indicating my attempt, but nothing at the starter. I don’t know if this picture will give an ideas but now it seems that perhaps ‘whatever’ is wrong may be in the cab under the dash. I have no idea what’s there but it looks like wire-spaghetti. I have repeated my post to TechMech here including the attachment.
The engine still does not turn over and still no headlights. That one connection that I pulled and tested though seems to have been a part of the problem as well. Makes sense that there may be another somewhere but other than in the cab, I have no idea where to look even in the cab under the dash. Its “guess and by golly” time. Any ideas?
I looked up the condenser and now I know where it is. Duh! Its good. And I have power to the coil, the starter, but no response other than a power draw indicated by the gauges mounted under the dash and a red light that comes on when I turn the key to start the truck. With the key in the “on” position, I have power to the coil. When it is off, I do not. I figure that’s normal. Still no headlights and no starter action.
At this point here’s what I have working. The indicator lights on the after-market gauge assembly mounted under the dash. The dome light comes on. The parking lights work as do the tail lights. The turn-signals work but the right front does not but the rear right does. The bulb is good up front. The windshield wipers came back to life. The heater fan came back to life as well. I seem to have power at all critical locations in the engine compartment, the coil, the starter, the alternator. I get a ‘draw’ on power when I try to engage the starter but no response from the starter. No headlights either though I have replaced the bulbs there as well. So I have power to most of the system (which is a long way past where I was) but not and response from the ignition or the starter or the headlights.
Now I need to know how to ‘jump’ the starter to see if it works. I have a central post and a positive and negative terminal to the left and the right of the main central terminal. If I can short the starter there and it works, then perhaps the problem is inside the cab under the dash? Thanks for all your help (everybody)!
did you clean your battery clamps?
Yup. New clamps and connecting cables and pristine.
I replaced all the glass fuses with new. I have replaced the fusible link with a temporary one using light gauge copper wire (shielded). Interestingly, I have power at the coil with the key in the ‘on’ position but at both poles. The turn indicators now work though I think the left front bulb is ‘out.’ Still no headlights and no response from the starter. I have power at the starter and I will attach a picture. The main cable from the battery to the starter (central terminal) has power (key on or off) and with the key on, I have power to the left side terminal. Other than the gauges indicating a ‘draw’ of power, there is no response from the starter.
Did you replace the battery terminals and check the terminal wires for corrosion, and loose connections? Occam’s razor.
Yup. Did all of that. Just got some contact cleaner spray for the molded plug connections. Going after them next in the process of eliminating possible causes of that sort. I have made some progress in that now I have parking lights, some dash lights, turn signals, but still no headlights nor any response from the starter. I do seem to have power to most all those areas now. I replaced the voltage regulator and unplugged one molded plug and cleaned the contacts as best I could, and when I plugged it back in, afterwards I had power in what I just described.