Not if there's a mechanical built in shims like the Posi Quiets
Sorry but I have to ask, What does that have to do with it? Never heard of a mechanical built in shim. Sounds like parts counter hocus pocus to me.
Brake pads can squeal at any mileage no matter what kind of shim or grease is involved. Glazed rotors and/or pads, warped rotors, faulty caliper slides, irregular wear of the pads, and contaminants can all cause pads to squeal.
A look at the Posi Quiet site doesn’t show me anything other than the same old, same old. This is why people attend college and obtain marketing degrees.
Look it up. My shop also services 3 major hospital ambulances around here so I definitely trust their judgement.
Posi Quiet brake pads are manufactured using the same positive molding process utilized by Original Equipment suppliers. Positive molding uses extreme pressure to compress the friction material and bond it to the backing plate. This process assures consistent friction material density throughout the pad, resulting in even wear and performance characteristics throughout the life of the brake pad.
The number one cause for customer returns are noise and vibration. Centric Parts has recognized these issues and is constantly improving its products to eliminate these issues. Posi Quiet brake friction features either precision cut or shaved backing plates and mechanically attached shims;
You said “look it up”. That’s fair. So I did. And I think there are some misunderstandings here.
The “backing plates” that are bonded to the pads are on all pads. That’s the way pads normally come. These are not to be confused with the shims. I’ve attached a link to an illustration of the parts in my own disc brakes, a very, very common arrangement. If you look carefully, you’ll see that the backing plates are bonded to the pads, the antisqueal shims being entirely separate parts. There are also clips that “mechanically attach” these parts together, as well as “wear indicators”.
http://www.toyotapartsoverstock.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_assembly=529148&ukey_make=1059&ukey_model=15422&modelYear=2005&ukey_category=21642
Regarding the “Positive molding uses extreme pressure to compress the friction material and bond it to the backing plate”, that’s an excellent description of the way all brake pads are manufactured.
I think you’re mistaking the well-written descriptions of what are really normal manufacturing processes as being something special about these pads. It’s a tribute to their ad writers, but nothing out of the ordinary.
I hope my attached link helps you to understand the Posi Quiet website better. I’m sure their pads are perfectly good, but I don’t see anything extraordinary about them.
I don’t have to look anything up even though I did take a look at the site. Same old, same old.
I couldn’t even begin to remember how many sets of pads with fitted shims I’ve installed over the decades.
There’s simply nothing new there. Yesterdays news.
On a similar note, I might have been lucky, but I have used aftermarket pads and rotors on my Toyota’s without any issues. Our current Camry has ceramic pads (OEM is semi-metallic) and new rotors since the original ones were warped. It has been 30K miles and no noise. The car also gets driven mostly locally in stop and go traffic.
If you look at the rockauto site, they have different grading for pads for the same car, it goes like “if you want to sell the car next week” to “if you care whether your car stops properly”. I think most of the pads in the same category are going to have similar performance; the prices are also very close. Brake pads are not very fancy pieces of engineering IMHO.
I just replaced my rear discs and pads. I might not have had to, but I discovered when looking at the pads that one caliper was sticking and had been dragging a pad. Needless to say, the caliper had to go too. At 219,000 miles, I consider a sticky caliper “normal wear”. I ain’t complainin’.
I guess all these people on tirerack are wrong. http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakecomments_all.jsp?make=Centric&model=Posi+Quiet+Ceramic+Pads&autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=RAV4+Base+Model+4wd&autoYear=2006&autoModClar=V6&group=Posi+Quiet+Ceramic+Pads
Here’s what my shop told me.
“I would use centric pads or we could us o.e.m. toyota pads, the centric pads are organic ceramic, and the toyota pads are semi metalic.”
By the way they service all ambulances for the 3 major hospitals around here. I can definitely trust their judgement.
hcord13 seems to have made up his mind before he ever posted. I suspect this is more of a promotion than a real inquiry.
Actually it isn’t. I’m asking for real world advice vs marketing advice.
Brake pads for passenger cars come in a variety of materials, all basically combinations of ceramics, a variety of metals, and resins (the binders). The proportions determine what category they’re considered to be a part of. Each category has typical characteristics. Most manufacturers make pads of all the different types. Compounding the matter, drilled and/or slotted rotors (such as those mentioned in the first review on the link) can interact differently with the different pad materials. The reviewer that wrote the review found the Brembo drilled discs to create dust from the ceramics, others used OEM replacement rotors with apparently different results.
There are also tradeoffs. Metallic pads can be noisy, but many like them because they last a lot longer than the organic pads. OEM pads are generally chosen for the best combination of low noise, acceptable performance, acceptable cost, and acceptable wear (in miles) under normal use. Exotic cars will often trade one of these characteristics for t he ability to deal with large loads without overheating and performing acceptably when hot.
It isn’t an issue of “wrong” or “right”. It’s an issue of what pads work well in combination with what discs for what use. I’m sure the pads you desire are perfectly good, and if those are what you’ve had recommended by a trusted source, I urge you to use them. Nobody is trying to dissuade you from doing so, and I’d wager that most or all of the regulars on this forum would support that statement. Some are simply suggesting that if you know little about pads and want to reduce the chance of any surprises, OEM pads are the way to go. Me, I chose something different than the manufacturer used, but I understand the differences.
It should be noted that my description above does not apply to race pads. Racecars accept extreme costs and very different performance characteristics to withstand the torture that they put their brakes through. They use pads and rotors with extremely high carbon content. Race brakes can glow like a lightbulb without failing for or fading for hundreds of miles on end. But they need to be kept hot to work well, they won’t last 50,000 miles, and they cost a couple thou per corner.
Nobody here is challenging your choice. We’re all on your side here. We’re only trying to help you understand the choice you’ve made. “Real world advice” for someone who doesn’t understand the technical differences is to stick with what the car’s manufacturer chose. You can’t go wrong that way.
I appreciate the sound advice. My only gripe is the manufacturer’s choice and quality of pads isn’t one that I would like re-live only because it happened to me on different suv’s. I guess for my own purpose I would like to give these new Posi Quiet pads and rotors a try. I don’t see anything terribly wrong with them. In fact, from the hundreds of reviews that I have personally read people recommend them highly. Anyone who is not too experienced will do enough research on forums, trusted online websites with their user reviews, dealers as well as independent shops. This is what I am doing to finally choose what direction I will head in. It’s not an unsafe choice. It’s a choice I think I can make because of the issues that I have personally had with oem pads and rotors that steer me in another “safe” direction.
@hcord13
“I’m asking for real world advice vs marketing advice.”
I don’t believe you’re even asking for advice, at this point
It seems as if you’ve absolutely convinced yourself that posi-quiet is the best. You’ve used it, and now you want to convince us that it’s the best
Again, I don’t think you’re asking for advice
I think you’re actually trying to give advice
Your advice is loud and clear . . . use posi-quiet brake pads
We’ve heard what you have to say. But everybody’s going to make up their own minds.
Wrong. I have not used them yet which is why I am asking people about their opinion. I will have them installed this Saturday.
@hcord13
I was only partially wrong
I was right that you’re committed to using posi-quiet
Why bother asking our advice if the decision has already been made?
I am only saying that those pads would be my first choice based on what I have personally experienced. I appreciate the advice others have also given. Again I’m still in my research phase. This is one avenue I have chosen to get that “sound advice” I have mentioned earlier.
Thank you all.
OK, so they work on ambulances. Are any of them even remotely similar to a baby SUV made by Toyota? I really don’t think so. Completely different kind of vehicle with different uses, needs and expectations.
That’s not the point. 3 major hospitals trust this shop is the point. Nuff said.
Hcord, I think you’ve done your homework and I support your decision.
Re: the OEM pads, I too was unimpressed with my OEM pads and chose to switch to ceramic pads. I’ve never regretted it. The only real difference in our decision processes is that I chose based on the pad category and you chose based on the company, a trusted shop’s recommendation, and some research.
I wish you all the best. I do hope you’ve learned a bit through the discussion, but whether you have or not, you’re going about the decision making properly in my opinion.