At 145 PSI compression then hell yes there is blowby. What part of 145 sucks do you not understand?
After living in the South for a number of years, I noticed the heat even if you did not. Maybe you didn’t notice the 90% humidity either.
I don’t normally get too testy but you’re fast becoming the poster child for the comments I regularly make on this forum about service writers.
Your right. I now understand that it is less complex than I was told by dealer. They had me believe it check the dielectric constant for particulates. I now understand that Honda does completely rely and trust the computations of there onboard maintenance minder and so do I. I have not let the level drop since I’ve been aware of the “disappearing oil”. BY the way lets see what Edmunds says-http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/oil-life-monitoring-systems.html?articleid=164687
Just had a Honda tech on inform me that Honda training has them sticker a car for the next change at 3 months or 15% oil life regardless of mileage. Hmm
I understand perfectly. I did not understand the dealer saying at 145 it passed. I have lived in much hotter dustier places. I would think that the “humidity” controls the dust that is worse on the engine which has been driven long distances and “boiled” out the majority of the moisture in the engine. If your a tech I wouldn’t knock advisors unless you think a greasy p’d off tech that blames the customer for everything can “sell” his own work.
They did. She didn’t. I didn’t. They volunteered. Nuff said.
Tech A says to change the oil according your manufacturers specifications. Tech B says change it every three thousand miles as was recommended 40 years ago. Who is correct?
Tech A
Tech B
Tech A and B
Neither Tech A or B
Have a great day fellas, Get some grease under the nails and blood on the knuckles!
Does the owners manual call for synthetic oil or oil filter?
I think the filters made for synthetic oils have too fine of a filter material, thus they do not flow oil very well after 5000 miles.
As previously posted, most vehicles according to the owners manual, fall under the “severe service” catagory
3000 mile changes have been normal until approx. 10 years ago. I change mine at 3500-4000 mile. Its still cheap insurance for the motor.
I’m not knocking you as a person. My issue is that only 1 service writer or service manager in 10,000 has any substantial mechanical know-how.
Service writers are the barrier between the customer and tech and generally are ill-informed mechanically. The mechanically illiterate customer is generally fed a line of carp (sic) and believes what they’re told, whether it’s true or not.
My opinion is based on the number of them I’ve worked with and the constant posts on this board where people were fed spoon-fed utter garbage.
Over the years I’ve worked with one guy who was sharp mechanically and he was an ex-tech turned service manager. Other than that, it’s a strikeout.
Based on your posts, I consider you to not be mechanically astute. Otherwise, you would not be buying into this 10-15k mile oil change, putting faith in a maintenance minder lamp, and would know that 145 compression reeks right off the bat.
If you don’t believe me on the compression pull a spark plug, squirt a small amount of oil in there, and recheck it. Gambling money says that reading goes up to 190, give or take.
I added a post about oil changes a few minutes ago. Feel free to make a stab at that one.
I keep having to repeat myself. Serv. Mgr. told my wife that the reading was 145 psi. I had a 20 second conversation with him " was too busy to talk". Instantly and unprompted he said they were going through the engine. I asked did it fail a wet test. He replied it passed the compression test. I dropped it and told him I appreciated him taking care of our car and left it in his hands. That was the entire conversation I had. I really didn’t think he could have handled alot of question nor have the answers. My wife had already given my the 145 and I really didn’t feel like questioning him and turning a good situation bad. See where I’m coming from. As for mechanical aptitude maybe one day you’ll see me in the next bay. Or your shop can sublet the hard stuff to me. Who knows. As far as your other post. You say small block Ford using 10w 40!. With NO problems. Why did you say it was apart? Since 2001 most all Fords are 5w 20 or 5w 30. If it was a newer model running a thicker oil could’nt I starve the friction surfaces due to the tighter clearance than engines of say 20 years ago like a 5.0.
When the point was made about 145 PSI of compression that’s when the stop sign should have come up. The engine is getting worn out and this kind of leads to my point about your not being mechanically astute.
There are simply too many things that you have mentioned in your posts that lead me to this conclusion. Even if I stuck to the compression test only this begs the questions of why are you having someone else do the diagnostics including a compresion test, which falls under Basic Mechanics 101?
That SBF I mentioned? That’s an 80s era engine and since you mention tighter tolerances let me suggest this. Do some research on some of the basic clearances of say a 2006, 1996, 1986, and even a 1966 model car.
Compare crankshaft oil clearances, crank end play, connecting rod sideplay, valve stem clearances, and piston/cylinder fitment along with piston ring end gap clearances.
You will find the '06 is about the same as the '66, as is the ones in between.
I realize you’re upset with me about the not being mechanically astute comment but your posts are full of things that a competent tech would never buy into. To quote you, “I’m a novice, not a Guru” and you’re the one with an '08 Honda with a worn out engine and who apparently allowed the oil to get low enough to cause the oil light to illuminate.
You are right. I should have gone into a engine that was under warranty. I should have ignored the millions spent in R & D by Honda in designing the “mainenance minder” and the maual info. But I wonder is “about the same” is how many thousandths? Here are some links as to tolerance.OIl clearance- 1980’s Ford 302 Rod bearing clearance: 0.0020-0.0030 inch 4.6 modular = 0.00106-0.00271 Big diff. With a little overlap yes. It still bags to differ as to being worn. The dealer hasn’t called and confirmed or given any good answers yet but I’ll let you know.
http://www.boston.com/business/personalfinance/articles/2008/03/09/breaking_in_engines_a_thing_of_the_past/
Another problem is the light coming on while on the highway. The higher RPMs present at highway speeds can mask a low oil pressure problem for a long time until it gets low enough to turn on the light. Not like noticing the light coming on when stopping at a red light. So it’s entirely possible that the engine was running with just enough pressure to turn off the light (and barely any oil volume) for some time before it was noticed. Major wear could have occurred in that time. If you consider that 10PSI is recommended for every 1,000 RPM, and you may have had 5PSI running at 2-3,000 RPM, you see what I mean.
What affect did it have on the cat? It probably didn't help, but I doubt it hurt. The computer allows a small amount of gasoline to run out to help the cat "fire off", and then later avoids running *too* lean to avoid overheating the cat. With both pre and post-cat O2 sensors, I imagine any oil burned be accounted for. Plus that rate of burning is just not that high.
How will ECM/PCM be affected by change in displacement? My guess, when it's first started up after the rebuild it'll run slightly lean for a minute or so, then the O2 feedback will bring the mixture back in line. I'm more familiar with GM ECMs, but they have a base mixture table that specifies the amount of fuel to be injected at various RPM and loads (with "load" on newer vehicles being determined by the MAF -- Mass Airflow -- sensor, and MAP (a vacuum sensor) on older vehicles). Then there's a short term trim to make quick mixture adjustments and long term trim (also called "block learn") to make long-term fueling adjustments at various RPM and engine load combinations. With a larger displacement, I would think the long term trim would adjust out any difference in engine behavior. I'm quite sure Honda uses different terminology but has a similar system.
Regarding oil burn -- one possible cause of unexpectedly high compression is an oil splash or oil jet system. My parents had a car with a Northstar, and it used about a quart per 1500 miles. Why? Oil jets to cool the pistons, agressive cylinder honing to help lubrication (but meaning more oil gets burned) and low-friction oil rings to help power and mileage (but also meant more oil burning). I wouldn't like my car to burn that much, but if it did I'd just deal with it.
As for V6 oil consumption.. disabling cylinder deactivation would surely harm gas mileage. I don't know why it'd affect oil consumption though, perhaps (to produce the same power) running 3 cylinders under heavier load consumes more oil than running 6 cylinders under light load.
As for the changes every 10,000 miles -- some people here have given you grief over it. But, personally, I'd look at the oil condition every so often (i.e. has it gotten pretty dark and burnt) and if not, 10K could be fine. I know some vehciles now have the system to remind oil changes and they'll EASILY get to 10,000 miles if it's not a bunch of short trips (short trips will let moisture and junk build up in the oil and need more frequent oil changes.)UPDATE- Got car back today. RO indicates - Check head (seals, guides etc.) Ground seats.
Check bore, deck, main bearings etc. Replaced rod bearings (stock) and honed replaced rings. I’m paraphrasing but you get the idea. Almost rebuilt. New compression 160 psi. avg.
THE ORIGINAL COMPRESSION OF 145 THAT EVERYONE HAD SUCH AN ISSUE WITH WAS WITHIN SPEC. I CHECKED MYSELF AND 135 PSI IS FACTORY MINIMUM! Service mgr. confirmed the 10k were fine but he would change around 7500 solely because we are soo easy on the car the “minder” stretches it out too long. They found no cause for the “consumption”. Come to find out the last consumption calculation when my wife dropped of was over quart and half in 1200 miles.
I’m not sure if issue is fixed but I feel good about where I am with the car. I still have 20k on factory warranty so I’ll keep those who care posted. Thanks Ed
Thanks for the update. We do care.
I have to tell you that I’m surprised the dealer was willing to do all this for you.
"If you run out of fuel and the gauge reads “almost” empty are you to blame for not putting a yard stick in the tank to check the level? "
Yes, because the fuel gauge show approximately how much fuel is in the tank. A more accurate way to estimate your range is to figure out you average mileage over the course of 4 or 5 fuel tanks of fuel. Then multiply that average by capacity of your fuel tank, give yourself a 20 mile or so cushion, and 99.99% of the time you’ll never run out of fuel. I’ve gotten it to the point where I can tell you how much fuel it’s going to take to fill my gas tank to with about quarter of a gallon, based on how many miles are showing on the trip odometer. I’ve never run out fuel in my life, though I have come very close on two occasions.
After you get some miles on the engine, the compression will go up.
I would recommend checking it at the next oil change interval, if you’re curious.
I still believe its your choice of oil that is letting you down with the highway driving.
A switch to Castrol, Valvoline, or Pennzoil synthetic would most likely cure the oil burning issue.
BC.
I will be changing oil and changing my maintenance/driving habits. I believe I have figured out the root of the issue. I would leave for work long before my wife in the mornings and recently it has been cold, icy, snow etc. I found out that she was cranking the car “a while” before she left in the morning. I’m thinking 15 min. Staying in open loop. I figured the rich running and cold combustion chamber and the fuel probably unburned, the oil was being diluted. The diluted oil would blow by alot easier. Considering the color and state of the oil when I would check it. It’s hard to determin if 5w has thinned to me. Just a guess. I bought her a scraper that I’m sure I’ll be using.
Your engine is not repaired and 160 sucks too; it just sucks less than 145. Many of those specs quoted in manuals (both aftermarket and factory) are garbage although I know that you are not going to believe that statement.
A Chrysler manual states that 115 is acceptable, another manual states that a GM 3.8 has a normal oil pressure of 6 PSI at elevated RPMs, and so. That is also utter, pure, unadulterated bunk.
As to those oil clearances you quote I suggest you go over those again. You will find those last numbers to be irrelevant because you’re dealing in 10 thousandths of an inch, not thousanths. Using the mid-range on both, tell me how .0015 on an older engine is different from .0015 on a newer one?
I wish you luck anyway but you know what would be a hoot?
Connect a vacuum gauge to the intake and see where the needle sits and what it’s doing.
Go up to the tech who “rebuilt” this and ask him to show you his inside micrometer set.
Just some additional food for thought, but here’s a cut and paste blurb (too lengthy for the entire thing) below about compression readings on an Accord with over 130k miles on it.
cyl1=190 psi
cyl2=185 psi
cyl3= 185 psi
cyl4= 185 psi
You have to ask yourself why yours is abnormally low when compared to the above, which is normal in my opinion. For what it’s worth, I worked for a multi-line dealer with a Honda franchise and serviced Hondas. Every car, including Hondas that came into the shop for any performance problems, tune-up type procedures, etc. got a compression test. That was SOP and a Honda with an engine in good condition had readings in the above range.
Abnormally low readings are caused by a mechanical fault or someone screwed up the compression test with a faulty gauge, not holding the throttle plate open, etc.
If it was the latter then you have to ask why would you trust someone who can’t get a basic compression test right.
In spite of our little adversarial back and forth, I can assure you that my intent is to try and help you even if you are somewhat irritated with me.