Do you guys believe that no new engine should ever need oil between scheduled changes?
I’d be upset if I had to. Owning vehicles for 40+ years. With the one exception of my Vega…no vehicle I’ve owned ever needed me to add oil between oil changes for it’s first 150k+ miles. Even the Vega didn’t need me to add oil until about 40k miles. The question isn’t why some are burning oil? The real question is - Why 98% (as reported by CR) AREN’T burning oil between oil changes?
Do you guys support class action lawsuits against the manufacturers?
Can’t say one way or the other. Need more facts. Is it an actual design or manufacturing flaw? 1 quart every 1000 miles seems awfully excessive. But I don’t have enough information to know that.
If I was making a new vehicle purchase I’d certainly be very leery of buying a vehicle that is known for burning 1-2 quarts between oil changes. There are so many other vehicles out there that don’t.
Do you guys believe that no new engine should ever need oil between scheduled changes?
Nope. What I do believe is that 750-1000 miles/quart is too often for a new car.
Do you guys support class action lawsuits against the manufacturers?
Can’t say without the particulars. But if a large percent of, say, new Audis only go 750 miles, I’d be VERY unhappy if I owned one.
I don’t necessarily agree with class-action lawsuits, BUT at the same time, these companies are giving their customers a cock-and-bull story about how “a quart every 700 miles is perfectly normal” vs doing the right thing and covering a rebuilt engine that doesn’t drink oil like W.C Fields drank brandy.
And if it takes a lawsuit to get BMW to play nice…
I just received my issue of Consumer Reports today. My community of 60,000 which has a state university with an enrollment of 19,000 students does not have an Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz or Subaru dealer. These cars made up the list with the lone exception being the Chevrolet Spark.
I do feel for the person who buys an expensive BMW or Mercedes and find he or,she has an expensive oil hog. However, in some ways, the products tested by CR are out of my league. For example, in this month’s issue, CR tested refrigerators. However, the top freezer refrigerators weren’t even tested and this,is,what I would purchase. It seems that CR has become more focused on the upper crust Consumer. CR recently tested the Cadillac Escalade. I am more,interested,in vehicles,that I, and,probably the majority of the consumers,would,purchase. Now,if the,Toyota Camry or Ford Fusion had an,oil consumption issue, this would be valuable information for me. I don’t care if the BMW uses a,quart of oil between changes or the Cadillac Escalade drives like a truck.
OK, I admit to not having read all of the responses yet, but just from my impressions from the article, this kind of fuzzy reporting was one reason I didn’t renew CR again. I just got the impression that the reporter was 23 or something. The idea that someone paying $60,000 for a BMW will find it difficult to pay for 7 quarts of synthetic for the year? And having to check the oil between “annual” oil changes. My heart was starting to speed up so I didn’t study the article any more. Clearly the kid spends too much time on video games that don’t use oil. Plus think how many times that ole engine spins around every minute and even using a drop a minute would be way way excessive over 5000 miles. Maybe its a bad thing that engines don’t use any oil?
LOL, Bing, you might be right. Something doesn’t sound right with that article.
The only ways oil can get into the cylinders is by staying on the cylinder walls after the wiper rings pass in too great a film, or via the PCV system. I can safely say that on a new engine blowby should be negligible, therefore I feel confident in ruling out the PCV system… although one should never rule out potential causes without analysis. There I go contradicting myself again.
So the writer of the article could have actually made a good argument for his case if he had the knowledge. He could have done some fast arithmetic and made the hypothetical argument that not that much oil should be retained on cylinder walls on a new engine. An opposing debater could have argued the need to retain oil on the cylinder walls and presented a credible argument to counter. An opposing debater could have presented statistics; distribution curves etc., and pointed out that the percentages are small. An opposing debater could have pointed out that according to the data presented, the oil usage only increases as the vehicles age.
BUT… the writer presents no argument beyond “new engines shouldn’t use oil between changes and there’s a lawsuit”.
My gut suggests that something has gone amiss with CR’s editorial staff.
Just as a side note, I remember being at the farm shop of an old crusty diesel mechanic with my BIL once. This guy worked on heavy equipment like dozers and trucks and would get projects once in a while from dealers that couldn’t resolve an issue with a diesel engine. He told of one where I think he actually reamed the cylinders out some to fix the issue and remember him shaking his head in disgust saying diesels gotta breathe. They should know that. He’s dead now too but maybe that’s what the Germans are thinking with their engines. They may want them to run loose and using a little oil is the result. Germans are kinda expected to check their oil once in a while you know. That reminds me I need to go check mine. Its been 400 miles.
Excellent point… there may be cultural differences in the design groups that matter to oil usage. Japanese may shoot for zero usage, Germans may believe some looseness and accompanying oil usage is good.
I was relieved that my2012 Toyota Camry burned no discernable oil between changes because I had read the owners manual where Toyota had claimed that “oil usage of one quart in 600 miles is not excessive”
I wonder how many cars they would sell if they posted that in the showroom?
This thread has prompted me to think that it would be possible to make a device that monitors oil level and adds oil as needed from a clear supply tank that can be kept filled by the owner. This could be an aftermarket product as it would not be needed for all vehicle brands including my Chev Cobalt at 73K miles with a 2.2 engine that needs no added oil between 8-9K mile change intervals. Our other GM car with a 2.5 liter, non-turbo engine does entirely as well.
Oil burning is not all bad; just a slightly expensive, attention needing nuisance. Burning, not leaked crankcase oil propels the vehicle forward as evidenced by a worn out VW diesel that has gone into runaway mode.
Wha Who, not to be a smart aleck but that device would be called the oil pan. It holds a supply of oil and the dip stick or oil level monitor tells you when to add oil. At any rate, you’d have to check the supply tank once in a while to add oil or they’d have to have the monitor on the supply tank instead of the engine. Then how big would it have to be to avoid normal usage or in the event of a catastrophic loss-one, two, three quarts? Then I’m not sure where there would be room to mount it.
I do believe though that EVERY car should have an oil level monitor with a displayed message to add oil. If they could have it in my 89 Riviera, its certainly nothing new. The other thing every car should have is a fuel pump cut off if you lose oil pressure. Very simple and cheap and GM (or at least Buick) has done it for years. Don’t know about others.
@Triedaq about Consumer reports:
In the refrigerator report: group D is top freezer refrigerators.
In the same issue, they reported on pickup trucks.
This does not agree with your comments on them.
The oil consumption list was based on a large survey.
“I’m not sure it’s a good idea to cut off fuel when some loser is in the fast lane on the freeway and loses oil pressure”
Apparently some drivers pay little attention to dashboard warnings (low oil pressure, low tires, etcetera). What would happen if this “loser” continued driving after losing oil pressure? An engine disassembling itself in the fast lane wouldn’t contribute to traffic flow.
Besides, some divers who don’t check engine oil also don’t check coolant components, tire condition, steering and suspension parts, etcetera (no state inspections where I live). When some of these items fail catastrophically in the fast lane, a traffic situation is created because unlike a with blown engine, the car may not want to stay its course.
Shutting it down could be the most anybody could ask.
Maybe BMW et al should concentrate less on the finish of the wood grain paneling and more on the finish of the cylinder walls.
The widespread use of low tension rings (for friction reduction) might have a bit to do with it too.
“The other thing every car should have is a fuel pump cut off if you lose oil pressure”
I Believe My Bonneville Has Only A Sensor Threaded Into The Oil Pan That Sends A Signal To Illuminate “Low Oil Level”. I Don’t Believe There’s A Float. Not rocket Science.
I’ve never needed it, but welcome it in case I ever spring a leak.
