Most cost-effective hybrids

new episode of top gear on now 8 pm on the BBC

Thanks americar!
~Michael

Hopefully, these silly things will disappear before too many more folks are suckered into buying them. If you want a cost effective car, just buy the late model used econo-box of your choice.

Most efficient hybrid. gasoline/peddle AKA Moped! (:

Unless they just forgot to mention it, Edmunds left out one more factor which works against hybrids. It is the “opportunity cost”, that is, the money you could have earned by investing the difference in price between a hybrid and the equivalent conventional model.

Consumer reports some time back did a life cycle cost comparison, in which they allowed for the “opportunity cost” and came to the same concluisons. Hybrids, at today’s gas prices, make sense for only a few people, mostly doing a lot of city driving in a mild climate. However, Toyota has economists on their staff who forecast $4-$5/gallon gas, and they want to be a household word in hybrisds when that time comes. In poorer countries with high gas prices, the route to economy is; smaller engines, smaller cars, almost no automatics, few gas robbing options, such as A/C, diesel engines.

You’ll be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks hybrids are currently cost effective, however I’ve nothing against them and am glad the investment is being made to develop the technology. First, I think that those who are concerned about environmental friendliness should have options available to them. Second, I think it’s inevitable that some type of alternative technology will become necessary, and Id prefer that the technology be developed under less pressure than a mandate.

I liked the Honda Pilot. In the near future there should be cool sporty hybrid technology cars out too. Some were previewed at the Japan auto show. Personally, I’d like to see plug in 100% electric sports cars. Like the Tesla, only affordable, based perhaps on a Civic chassis like the Del Sol was rather than a Lotus chassis.

Shouldn’t we look at the big picture? It’s not about whether we can recover the cost, it’s about burning less fossil fuel. Hybrids may not make financial sense for many of us, but let’s think in terms of our impact on global warming. If you can afford the higher price, and you need a car, you should do the right thing.

From that perspective, just go buy a small conventional diesel. You will probably generate less CO2 in real world conditions and it is likely to last much longer than one of these toys, which will reduce the energy consumption associated with disposing of and replacing the car. This is little more than very effective marketing to folks with way too much guilt and disposable income. These folks should really get the all-time “selling ice cubes to Eskimos” award.

Considering the type of driving (city vs Highway) is far more important that the number of miles per year I would say without even seeing it that the study if flawed due to a poor premise.

While I don’t rule out the hybrid idea, frankly I get better real life mileage with my non-hybrid than any hybrid is rated.

So why can’t we get the VW LUPO here in the states? I followed a few links from the interesting topics here on mpg and found the Lupo getting as high as 100 mpg, the lowest I saw was 63 mpg. Why can’t VW sell it here? Rocketman

Interesting responses; when Hybrids first came out I posted up on this forum about how it would take 200-250K miles to break even when compared to a similarly equipped econobox. I got flamed hardcore for that little synopsis. It seams sentiments have changed a little:)

Define the “right thing.” I agree with you to some degree. I am just saying that based on a financial analysis, you will only save money by buying a hybrid in very specific circumstances. Also, if you can get 40 miles per gallon with a non-hybrid economy car, you are already doing the right thing without spending thousands of extra dollars.

Let’s say, for example, you own a Ford F-150 and drive about 10,000 miles per year. You decide to buy a Honda Civic Hybrid. Then you sell your Ford F-150 to a guy that drives 25,000 miles per year. In this case, you have not done the environment a favor. In another example, if you drive 25,000 miles per year and sell the F-150 to someone who drives 10,000 miles per year, you have done something that is good for the environment.

This is not a black and white issue if you look at the big picture.

It’s now marketed as the Fox. The Fox is a city car. That translates to small and underpowered for highways. It has about 70 HP. Would you go out on the highway in that? It has limited appeal, and they will consider selling it when the Rabbit and New Beetle become their largest sellers here.

Why aren’t they able to make more efficient hybrids? My regular 1997 Honda Civic Manual transmission car can get 43 miles per gallon on the highway, and given that most hybrids are supposed to get around 50 miles per gallon, it would be crazy for me to replace my Civic with one. But if the technology for 43 miles per gallon existed in regular gas cars in 1997, shouldn’t they be able to make Honda Civic type hybrids (not just tiny city cars) that are getting 80 mpg by now?

I see lots of comments by people who think they know all about the hybrid driving experience. Do anyone of you drive one?
I have been driving a Prius for 4 1/2 years and am amazed at the fears out there about battery life, acceleration, etc.
The Consumer Report car survey has rated the Prius as having the largest percentage of satisfied owners in its class for the last 5 years. It is not all about economics.
I have communications that I had several years ago with a taxi fleet operator who uses Prius(s) One of his units had 250,000 miles with no major problems…and, gasp, the big battery was still going strong. Toyota was taking that car from him and giving him a new one because they wanted to go through a tear down wear analysis. And, he operates his fleet in Vancouver, BC. Not a mild climate.
These cars are quick off the mark. When you push the accelerator, both the gas and electric motor work in tandem.
As for operation cost analysis, the only cost is virtually only gas. The brakes do not wear out because the energy is used to recharge the battery. Etc, Etc.
I have close to 90,000 miles on mine.
Recovering the cost differential from gas savings is dicey I will admit. But gas will be back to $4.00 a gallon in the not too distant future and the pay back will be quicker.
I am a retired project cost engineer and I am aware of all those arguments.
I heard a car salesman say that we Prius owners are a cult. Yes we are

I’m a Prius owner; 52,000 miles in 2 years 6 months.
No problems. (woosy first tires replaced)
Mostly “stop and go” warm weather driving, interspersed with occasional LOOOONNNGGGG drives (quite a few 1,500-3,000 mile trip) up north in mountains and snow.
Love the car.
BUT- talking about cost effectiveness: I bought when there was a $3,150 tax credit !!!
Maybe Congress (and many of you anti-Prius posters) will wake up and smell the exhaust fumes and end the tax break for mega gas guzzlers…and restore the tax credit for true Hybrids (not the fake “name only hubrids” )

The question should be “does a hybrid save energy” (or green-house gases)?

The answer is definitely NOT obvious! The extra cost of a hybrid’s production is
accurately described as extra energy. The question then becomes does the total
energy of construction, plus the energy of use, plus the energy of disposal add
up to less or more than a similar sized standard car? There are many variables
but very smart people have shown that a hybrid will not save energy or
green-house gases. When driven for a long-time (>5years) for lots of city-driving
with no accidents or battery replacements they will be better. However,
usually a Toyota Corolla will be “greener”. Turns out cost is a pretty good predictor
of energy used in production and use. However, disposal cost is rarely paid directly
by the driver.

This same question should be asked about electric cars (or plug-in hybrids).
You must consider the energy used (mining, chemical processing, etc.) in production,
the energy used for electricity generation, maintenance and disposal to get the true
energy cost.

As much as I would like a quick fix to the energy/fuel problem in America, I
have to concede the Prius is mostly a “I want to keep doing what I have always done
while, just appearing to others as being green”. Policy makers should consider
the increased total energy usage before allowing hybrids in HOV lanes. Drive less.
Walk or Bike more.

They save gas,
less oil changes,
less brake wear,
less pollution
and have higher resale value. especially the prius, a FULL hybrid. There is a difference.

I even had mine converted into a plug in . 100+ mpg is easy. When gas goes back to $4 a gallon, then subsidies stop and it goes to the real cost of $14.51 a gallon it will payoff big time.

My story;

My wife and I bought a used 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid almost 3 years ago for 12500, and we put 35000 miles a year (mostly highway) on it. We get 50 MPG and almost 3 years and 100000 additional miles later we were recently offered $8000 for the car. There must be an accountant in this group who can calculate that payback. Could we drive a used Corolla or gas Civic for 100000 miles for depreciation of $4500 AND get 20% better mileage to boot?

PK