Overfilling Oil - Worst Case Scenario

I too agree that too much iol by that amount can cause destruction of an engine, the reasons already having been defined.

While I place the blame clearly and solely on the shoulders of the skippy lube, I’d like to suggest that in future whenever work is performed on your cars you double check the work to the extent practicable before leaving the shop, even if it’s just the fluid levels. One should not have to do this, but it can save you lots of aggrevation and even money in the future. Trust but verify.

Sorry for the delay in information, work really interferes with life.

In response to Rod Knox,…yes, there was residue on the dipstick. I checked the oil on the side of the road, expecting it to be low. When I initually wiped the dipstick, it was sticky with a burnt oil residue all the way up (the tube length). It confused me at first, but is obvious in hindsight. (Foam and heat)

Anyway, Mr. Popular National Chain Manager is flaunting his ASE credentials and has blown me off completely. (Not even a refund for the oil change.) Fortunately, local small claims court has a $6k limit and 2yrs statute of limitations. More to come in a few months after my court appearance. If anyone knows of information that will support my position in court, it would be greatly appreciated. People need to know they have recourse.

Thanks to all who have reponded.

Shame on them for causing your problem. Double shame on them for saying it was not their fault. It was, pure and simple. ASE certification my left hind foot. The guy is trying to say he is smarter than the engineer who designed your engine. He’s not. If it calls for five quarts and had at least 1-1/2 quarts more than that, the foam killed your engine.

You may not need to go to court. Just show him these posts. He is outvoted, at least six to one.

See my iffy lube experience posted here about ten months ago here: http://community.cartalk.com/posts/list/2136790.page

I have not needed to go back, but will always remember to check my oil if I do have to.

The day you picked up your car (after ther oil change) what was the oil level then? OH you did not check,shame on you. Can you tell me the amount of excess oil that was put into your engine? this is going to be an important figure as how will a judge know if the position on the stick that was indicated also indicated a damaging overfill amount? Lastly,what is your explaination for the burnt nature of the oil left in the engine? this needs to be explained.Remember, you are making the claim that the overfill caused your damage so the burden of proof is on you.

The chain’s not going to admit anything is their fault as a matter of policy. If they forgot to put the oil in and the engine seized two minutes after you left the shop, they would still deny everything.
Did they cause the damage by adding too much oil? Your best bet is to ask the manufacturer. There is a warning on the dipstick. The manufacturer must have had a reason to add this warning.
The facts are, you went to a chain for an oil change, they overfilled your oil against the manufacturer’s warning (and admitted it), and the engine suffered damaged within 200 miles of the oil change. How do you think this is going to look to a small claim’s court judge?
Sue them in small claims court for the cost of repairs. Watch a few Judge Judy’s before you go.

I think you may have tipped the odds favorably with your description of the problem. I hope you have pictures too. The noise and the rapid catastrophic failure after that tells me that the rod bearing lost lubrication rapidly. If some of the other rod bearings show damage, I would say that the oil change people were definitely responsible for the damage.

If the oil change guy claims that all the rods should have flown off at the same time, or similar words, I think you should win because we all know that that is wrong. Judgement for the plaintiff for $3,000.

I have no faith in ASE certification. It doesn’t mean the people are careful. I always thought of it as a joke since I had three years and two months of trade school training.

Mileage on truck?? At this point, it’s impossible to tell exactly how much oil they put in the engine…If the rod actually came through the block, a considerable amount of oil could have been lost before all motion ceased…

If you are in the business of changing oil, then you MUST do these two things. You check the oil level BEFORE you change it and you check it again AFTER you change it. Saves a lot of grief.

OH MY!! WHAT A MESS! And you know what? “SHAME” on OldSchool for riding you about not checking oil after it was done. While it is a good practice to check it weekly, or everytime you get gas, you shouldn’t have to check it right after an oil change.

My point is, this is NOT a forum to scold people, berate people, or even belittle people. They come HERE in good faith and because they trust our expertise, opinions, and experiences. Coments as such may make individuals such as Joekota not ever log in again.

Keep it factual, helpful, colorful, but NOT scornful!!

JP#3

A lot of people come here and post BS too…

  1. Avoid national repair chains.

  2. Whenever feasible double check when someone works on your stuff. Trust, but verify.

In my opinion, ok4450 was simply demonstrating what a judge would ask. That type of information would be required in order to make a good case in court and prove it was the fault of the oil changers.

There was nothing “scornful” about the post.

It was good advice.

One thing that I did not see mentioned was that the old oil may have not been drained, the filter was changed and then new oil simply added. It might be possible to verify this with an oil analysis. With that you should know also what the analysis would show for unused or very new oil.

If the filter was not changed, then this could muddy the analysis.

Was this one of the places that have all activity in the shop recorded? if yes you could expect that information to be shared if it supported the shops claim, not shared if it did not support the shops claim.

I often wonder why a company would venture into the oil change business. The profit margin must be pretty small (non existant if you do not up sell anything) and think of how many jobs must go right to pay for one that goes wrong (even if the shop is only paying an insurance preminum).

Some seem to think that all you have to do is post anything about a quickie lube place and all will be pulling for you, not so. If you post facts that leave no doubt that the shop is in error and you did your part in the quality control process I will be leading the way to get you made “whole” but until then the shop is only suspect.

I could see foaming oil causing bearing failure but it is not clear how overfilling could cause a rod to break, and break so suddenly.The first damage I would expect from over filling is oil leakage, then bearing damage (which would show upon inspection) not rod breakage.For rod breakage I would expect to find something that interfered with the travel of the rod or piston, like fuel or coolant in the cylinder. Perhaps enough oil could make its way into the cylinder and lock things up but I would expect while this was taking place the bearings were being damaged and would have failed much earlier than the time it would have taken for the cylinder to be force fed enough oil to lock things up.

Glad to see you’re not taking it lying down. I recommend you find a competent mechanic as an expert witness to bring with you to court - - it’d be pretty fortunate if the judge knew about oil foaming :wink:

While I’ve never personally seen a rod broken or thrown because of overfilling it’s certainly possible that it could happen.

I have seen several overfilled engines that hydrolocked; one of them being a diesel. The combusion chambers had enough oil forced into them that the engines slammed to a halt but in the few cases mentioned this happened at idle or very low engine RPMs.
There was apparently no harm done in those cases but at elevated RPMs on the road I could see a catastrophic failure due to overfilling.

In the case of the diesel, a tech had changed a head gasket and test drove the car about 1/2 mile before it started bogging down, making noise, and slamming to a stop; luckily at the shop entrance right a lunchtime. He told me (I was the foreman) about the problem, went to lunch, and never came back to work. Ever.

Although I have never had the displeasure of throwing a rod while driving I have driven several vehicles with badly worn crankshafts that resulted in the connecting rods knocking. More than one was driven many miles with the oil light flickering and the engine threatening to break loose at any moment but all made it to the shop. It is difficult to imagine how an engine could self destruct so completely without a great deal of warning. All the thrown rods that I have seen occurred with the engines apparently at or near wide open throttle and red line. Engines grossly over filled with oil have arrived with a trail of smoke from the exhaust and from under the hood with dip sticks pushed out, oil leaking from seals and gaskets and being dumped into the air filter housing. The drivers were having a difficult time keeping the engines running. None that arrived over filled required more than cleaning up and sealing and new spark plugs. But, as previously stated, a 3.9 Mopar has never arrived over filled.

Well, It seems oldschool has taken this thread off on a tangent. So lets get back on track.

Yes, oldschool, my wife is guilty of not checking the oil level when she had the “professional” service done. As you elude to, It is really a sad statement that every driver has to be a mechanic. Prior to this event, I would also have be guilty of not checking the level. As I got older, laying on cold cement to change oil in my garage was becoming more and more painful. Sorry to say, I am now changing my own oil again… since pain goes away… but a blown engine doesn’t.

Anyway, I personally replaced the engine in the Dakota. Upon disassembly of the damaged engine, I found the rod broke and bent in several places around the narrow metal sections that retain the bearing. The piston and linear portion of the rod were still hanging out of the (now damage) cylinder bore. The lower rod piece I salvaged from the pan is severely grooved, so there is little doubt the bearing was spinning. I am not sure what piece did the block/pan damage.

For those asking about mileage, the engine only had 89,000 on it after ten years. Low mileage by today’s standard. The oil I drained out was as black as used oil, so I suspect they loaded the new oil on top of the old. I do give them credit for (at least) changing the oil filter.

Anyway, the lawsuit has been filed in small claims court. Let’s see what happens.

Was the cylinder broken through to the water jacket? If so that would possibly be the cause for the dipstick indicating over filling. We each must attempt to deduce the situation based on the information given and our own experience and when engines with hydraulic lifters such as the 3.9 Mopar are excessively overfilled the oil will certainly froth and before the bearings are damaged the lifters will collapse and the engine will lose power and become quite noisy. If the driver is aggravated at the loss of power and stands on the gas in a determined effort to accelerate with no concern for the consequences a thrown rod is certainly possible. My best guess is that whether there was an over fill condition or not the engine was making some high revs and beginning to make some unhealthy sounds when it began to self destruct.

When I worked at a Dodge dealer I noticed that most 3.9 liter engines were over filled. The grease monkeys working there were unaware these engine only hold 4 quarts of oil. I didn’t see any broke pistons or connecting rods because of this.

A four quart oil capacity in a truck engine was a really bad idea, less durable when it comes to neglect. So many people try to go 10,000 miles between oil changes. They bring thier sludged up engines in for an oil change, the clean oil washes the sludge down to the oil pan and 175 miles later their oil pump is plugged.

This just happen to me in 2009 tahoe . Went to get oil change 30 mins later truck started shaking check engine light came on oil pressure dropped call shop told them what was going on they ask to get it towed our cam I make it to to next locations shop .went to other shop was was told it was 3 quarts to much oil in my Tahoe and it threw a code mis fire in 4 … other shop tried to figure how to fix the problem but nothing work was then told my problem is in my engine. So other shop called me and said I must have added the oil that they only put 6 quarts in . So I said why would I put oil in my truck when I just got a oil change . So filed claim with there insurance frist thing the guy tell me was the shop said I add oil to my truck I said no how does that sound. Now still waiting on adjuster to come look at my vehicle.