“A path of ashes laid in front of each driving wheel will guarantee absolute traction on ANY surface, even (especially) bare ice.”
I could vote that it wouldn’t even come close to course sand. There are NO guarantees where ice is concerned other than these.
http://kenjonestiresblog.com/blog/maxigrip-screw-on-ice-studs-instead-of-tire-chains/
And these are impractical for cars.
I USE THEM and tractors can walk up hills you couldn’t climb on your hands and knees. Ashes ? I’m not convinced.
Thats from back in the day. Wood stove ashes work great!
I’ve gotten safely through a score of winters with little cars like the Honda Civic. Front-wheel drive really shines on slippery roads! If I had one and only one bit of advice to give, it would have to be SLOW DOWN. If you’re on a safe stretch of road, test your stopping distance - even with ABS, you might be shocked to discover that you need twenty or thirty feet.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen idiots in pickups and SUVs sail past me on an icy road, convinced that the laws of physics don’t apply to them. I’ve watched them end up in the ditch, on the guardrail, and in one case, smash sideways into a line of parked cars and then ricochet across the road, smack into a tree.
Which leads to a second bit of advice: watch your rear-view mirror, and if you see one of these morons bearing down on you, try to get out of the way - because you’re the one with steering.
How do I deal with winter in a regular car?
Carefully. Veeeeeeerrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyy carefullly.
After 45 years of practice, I’ve learned that there are no secrets. You just need to have good tires, good lights, good sense, and plenty of patience.
Good tires are a must. Leaving a little more distance between you and the cars in front of you is a good idea–not only for stopping distance but you won’t get all that crap kicked up onto your windshield either. Also knowing how your car behaves in snow and ice is extremely useful–find an empty parking lot that’s snowed over and drive like a madman–slam on the brakes, accelerate and take sharp turns. The information you gain and the resulting confidence will be an asset to you IMHO.
Gee I can’t believe I missed this one back in 2010. I took my drivers test in a snow storm in Minnesota. Couldn’t wait. Had to stop twice to clear the snow off the rear window of the 61 Merc but I got a 94. Obviously I had been driving quite a bit by then.
I do have to admit that several times I have shifted into neutral on the freeway going down a hill on glare ice with a curve at the bottom. Leaving the car in gear added enough drag to skid the wheels. Not much fun so I try to stay home now.
Fwd is by far better the rwd in snow.
Snow tires are better then all-season…but for most the country they just aren’t needed.
4wd is better the awd for driving in snow…and awd is better then 4wd.
Even with the best equipment you still need to know HOW to drive.
#1 - SLOW DOWN. I can’t mention this enough. Today we’re expecting to get 2’ of snow here in NH. I’ll be heading out later this evening during the real heavy stuff. Speed limit around town is 30…I’ll probably be in 4wd and going MAYBE 20. Driving slow is the key.
#2 - Keep proper distance. New England drivers are noted for driving too close. Only place in the country where you can have a 60 car pileup on a nice sunny day. When it snows you really have to be conscious of your distance. Last snow storm we had I was driving back from a Celtics game. I personally witnessed 2 accidents. Both were caused by the driver in the rear driving too close. And the driver in front slowed down a little…the driver in the rear had to brake…and he spun out of control. On the highway doing 40mph in 4wd I’m at least 200’ from the vehicle in front of me. Probably closer to 300’.
#3 - Expect the unexpected.
#4 - If you don’t have to go out…then DON’T. Stay at home. I HAVE to pick my son up from work at his after school job. Schools canceled today, so they asked him to come in and work all day (he works at a Market Basket store). If he didn’t need to be picked up from work…then I wouldn’t be heading out.
Like many here I have well over 40 years of winter driving experience. I grew up and learned how to drive in Pulaski NY (where I still visit family every summer and winter). Pulaski is one of the snowiest towns in the US - averaging about 230" a year (mostly due to Lake Effect). So you learn how to drive in snow. People here in New England talk about the Blizzard of 78 and how devastating it was. I guess because it was just another snow day in Pulaski that we didn’t have much of a problem. While Boston got hit with 2’ of snow…we had a nice record setting 90" of snow. My F150 was just a little blimp under the snow covered parking lot. I drove back from school during that storm. By then we only had 30" of snow on the ground. It was bad…but we get that kind of snow all the time - so people know what to do and how to drive in it. Plows were out early. You either know how to drive in snow in that area…or you move. Too much snow and lake effect snow can all of sudden come up with no warning. So you just can’t stay at home.
@MikeInNh "fwd is by far better then rwd in snow"
You have a 4Runner, 4th generation. With it’s excellent ground clearance a little weight in the back and AT or snow tires, I would bet that even if you left it in rwd, it would do much better then a compact car with snow tires in deep snow. Rwd drive disadvantages over all when compared to fwd, has largely disappeared with traction control.
The Crown Vic that I used to drive at work, with limited slip, gear weight in the back etc, was much better on snow covered hills then ANY comparable fwd car. Weight over the drive wheels is very important for traction in getting started, whether it be front or rwd. . On a hill, the weight shifts to the rear…poor fwd !
Simply put, I believe if you drive a rwd car with more weight over the rear wheels in the same ratio a fwd car has, the rwd car would be superior in snow. It’s about weight distribution and ground clearance if you doin’t have awd/ 4wd.
With proper weight distribution that a driver can and is willing to control, rwd IMO, is better then a comparable fwd car. Everything else, " I’m reading your mail ". Now, if I were raised when the SS 396 or the Olds442 was king, and tried to drive them in snow, I would lord over fwd too.
Simply put, I believe if you drive a rwd car with more weight over the rear wheels in the same ratio a fwd car has, the rwd car would be superior in snow.
MAYBE…
The other advantage fwd has is if you get stuck. Ever get stuck in a rwd vehicle and you rock it back and forth…Well what you do is create your own rut. And it gets difficult to get out of it. With fwd you just turn your wheels and you’re out of the rut.
I still prefer fwd over rwd. My 4Runner is good in rwd in snow. But I have good AT tires (Cooper AT3’s ). But for 2-4" I’ll take a fwd vehicle over a rwd any-day.
Sorry mike…thought you had a 4Runner. Almost bought a Pathfinder in 2004 but they were a little pricy for the size back then and got a 4Runner. I would have been happy with either. Both great cars.
I will take your MAYBE and run with it this way. There are lots of factors other then fwd v rwd involved in snow traction. That most modern cars in fwd have more weight over the drive wheels means they have the immediate advantage of added traction on take off…on level ground.
“Ever get stuck in a rwd vehicle”… I hear what you say and counter with…ever try to start from a stop on a snowy hill in fwd. Here the comparable rwd has the advantage. So, going back to"fwd is far better then rwd"
Can we at least say it’s situational…?
My kids had a choice of taking one of two cars to go out with. Both had snow tires. A Chevy Nova and a Mazda pick up with 300 lbs of tube sand in the back. In snow, they both preferred the pick up,as did I.
My little Corvair with RWD and rear engine and snow tires was the best car I ever had for snow. We’d take the thing out on snow days just for fun going through drifts. The one time I did over do it, just rocked it a little and it kept on digging its way out of the snow bank. My RWD Olds with posi traction would pretty much go through anything too but I still prefer my FWD except on ice.
Bing…
There in lies the rub. There are few cars left that are rear engine, rear wheel drive cars. The ones we had and that including the VW were all admittedly excellent in snow. That they lack space effiiency and are more difficult to pass crash tests and had handling quirks at speed, are the main reasons you don’t see them now. There are plenty of front drive cars with motors over the front wheels and plenty of rear drive with motors in the front. IMO, in this day and age, it is the norm that people with rear drive trucks and cars, just don 't properly prepare them for winter. If fwd was such a good traction aid, you would see it in trucks, tractors, busses and all emergency vehicles. You don’t because fwd is in limited use vehicle, restricted to level ground, low weight carrying and minimal snow depth.
Emergency rwd vehicles go places fwd cars can’t for two reasons other then tires. Proper weight distribution and ground clearance. In this day and age, you will seldom see a fwd car with proper ground clearance for snow. So to say in general, fwd is bettere then rwd, only compares a few examples that most people normally drive and does not represent the complete picture. Add weight to fwd, it begins to have worse traction and struggles on hills and in extreme conditions. Add weight to rwd, it improves on hills and begins to excel in extreme conditions…
Sorry mike...thought you had a 4Runner.
I do…I changed my post…I USE to own pathfinders…90 and 98. Now I own a 05 4runner.
.ever try to start from a stop on a snowy hill in fwd
Several times…And I’ll take it over rwd any day of the week.
Can we at least say it's situational
It’s situational in the sense that…A rwd with 4 snows and added weight in the trunk will probably do better then a fwd with summer tires…that I’ll give you.
But a fwd with good winter/snow tires…is far better then rwd with 4 snows and added weight. I’ve driven both types vehicles many times.
A Pickup might be better because of ground clearance.
"a rwd with snows might o better then a fwd with summer tires"
You’re a tough man !
Try this. Put a little extra weight in your 4runner so it’s balanced, leave it in rwd and start on a snowy hill tomorrow, Now, if your fwd sedan starts easier, your tires on your 4runner needed changing.
When I started adding a little extra weight to mine, I go places no fwd car dares. Of course I have snow tires with studs on my 04 4Runner.
Let me know how much snow you get tomorrow !
Haven’t had a really good ice/snow in 20 years. I’m removing the studs from the 8 yo tires and will be using the tires as regular tires. Weather is changing and spring is getting earlier.
Utube has some demos on removing studs. Surprisingly very easy.
Try this. Put a little extra weight in your 4runner so it's balanced, leave it in rwd and start on a snowy hill tomorrow, Now, if your fwd sedan starts easier, your tires on your 4runner needed changing.
Friday I had to pick up my son from work at about 5pm. There’s a little hill I have to drive up. At 5 the hill wasn’t plowed yet…I had to put it in 4wd to make it up the hill. My wife had no problem making the same hill with her Lexus with all-season tires. Half way up the hill is a stop-sign…so you end up stopping. That’s where I got stuck…Wife slid a little…but was able to get up it no problem. Once I shifted into 4wd I had no problem.
Now maybe if I put 500-600 lbs of weight back there…then MAYBE I could have made it. But then I won’t have any room for cargo.
@mikeInNH
You don’t need 600 lbs…3 bags of tube sand at 70 lbs each makes a world of difference, no maybe about it. A 6 pack bet is in order.
Weight in the back makes ALL the difference. It’s the weight over the drive wheels and all my posts have stipulated that. If it’s there, rwd is better as dynamically, the weight shifts rearward as you know, on hills.
That’s why fwd is thought to be superior because people DON’T prepare their rwd. And, the weight is allready there with the fwd. Add passengers in the back, and the traction deteriorates.
Bottom line is…if we drive around all the time in a poorly balanced rwd vehicle, especially a 4wd left in 2wd mode, then yes, we will prefer fwd.
I had two rear wheel drive cars that were very good on snow and ice. One car was a 1961 Corvair. I had regular tires, but the rear tires were “siped” by the independent dealer where I traded. These tires were also recaps. The other car, surprisingly, was my 1947 Pontiac. It had 6.50 x 16 tires and my rear tires were 6 ply recaps with a mud and snow tread that were intended for a light truck. The 1947 Pontiac had good weight distribution. That model Pontiac could be had with either an inline 6 or an inline 8. My Pontiac had the 6 cylinder engine. The engine put less weight on the front wheels than the 8–there was so much space between the fan and the radiator that there was a shroud around the fan so that it could pull plenty of air through the radiator. However, the 1955 Pontiac that I bought to replace the 1947 was terrible on ice and snow. I think that the 1955 had a higher percentage of weight on the front wheels. The 1954 Buick and the 1965 Rambler that I owned weren’t too bad. Both of these cars had torque tube drive (enclosed drive shaft) which put more weight on the rear wheels.
The problem is I NEED my rear cargo for storage. And MANY rwd vehicles don’t have enough cargo space to add any added weight.