I even read somewhere where Toyota was selling minivans that don’t even come with a spare tire!
It’s NOTHING new…GM use to sell cars without a back seat. Rear BUMPERS on pickups were OPTIONAL.
Timing Chain replacements need not be expensive. The one and only timing chain I ever replaced was on a 1984 V8 Impala, and it cost all of $275 in 1998. On a rear drive car, the timing chain is easily acessible and not that difficult to change. and the water pump does not need to be changed either.
I have a Toyota 3vz v6 circa 1993 and changed the timing belt at 85000± but got to change the pump and idler and whatever else looked like it needed, took me a half a day or so and the truck ran so much smoother for the new parts, it was almost worth the exercise just for the quiet. I used OEM parts so I probably paid more than if I had used aftermarket, I think the job cost $300. Truck has 135k now so I won’t have to change the belt for another 35k, three to four years at my rate, I still think it was a good price for the miles. The tires, which I have to change every 60 or so thousand miles cost six hundred or more, so what’s the three hundred at 85k? Cost of doing business. Cars are very expensive any way you look at them. You will probably save a whole lot more by keeping the car longer, and not paying the price for a new one. Maintenence is cheaper in the long run. (in my humble opinion)
Easy access and quality made the original Maytag washers so popular. A service man told me and showed me that the belts, motor and pump could all be replaced in a very short time. Taking off the front panel to access all these items takes less than a minute.
This concept is called maintainability. On a Chrysler tank, the gas turbine can be changed out in about one hour under battlefield conditions. The US military always writes specs about how long maintenance tasks take. The original Hummer wa built that way.
all im going to say is timing belts are a pain in the but and need more maintaience.twice as much as a chain.if you have an interference engine with a belt your screwed.one little leak on that belt and your down to 10,000 miles the belt breaks and the engine is done.i agree with the timing chain with a non inteference engine.you never know when the crap hits the fan,but at least you dont have to replace the head ,and a maybee a piston or the whole engine.i will never buy a new car with a belt,since they also can skip a tooth under a heavy load.if im towing a boat or a trailer im realing on a 40.00 piece of rubber to get me to work the next day.plus the belt broke you have no vehicle and it needs a new engine.what are the big three thinking.
Interesting. I Can Learn Something Here. How Does A Heavy Load Cause A Timing Belt To Skip A Tooth ? I Didn’t Think Pulling A Boat And Trailer Put Extra Strain On A Valve Train Or Water Pump. Explain.
CSA
The minivan you talk about without a spare tire is an AWD Toyota Sienna, there is no place to put one under the vehicle because of the rear driveline components. I have to say I own one of these and it kinda sucks not having a spare, but I can also say the van has runflats which are good to 55mph, and I have never has a flat tire that required a tire change to get home in 15 years and approx 400k miles of driving. You can have a spare tire put inside the vehicle with a kit but then you lose a seat so then it is only a six passenger vehicle.
GM sells some cars without a spare tire, one is called the Corvette, the other one is called the Tahoe (well on some of them anyway). Other cars without a spare include some Porches, some chryslers. Its nothing new.
I missed the post re pulling loads/belt failure. That’s new to me, also. I’m curious.
Here is my take on the whole thing, yes people need to be informed about timing belt replacement intervals, Oh wait… They are informed if they read the owners manual.
When will people learn, read the manual, read the manual, read the manual!
As far as informing them about expensive replacement ( which a timing belt is not really that expensive to replace, IMHO, except on certain vehicles)
Should they also be informed that the windshield will have to be removed to replace the ac evaporator (early pontiac azteks)? Should they be informed that to replace the head after the spark plug launches out of it you have to pull the body off of the frame to do it easily? ( Ford F series and expeditions, and yes they make a kit for this now so you don’t have to pull the head)?
My point is this, I have never seen a broken timing belt that broke before its service interval on a newer vehicle (I know of old ford escorts that broke them all the time), A timing belt is a maintainance item that is strong and reliable up until the time specified, once the time is reached you replace it and don’t take any shortcuts, replace the waterpump if its belt driven, replace the tensioner and be done.
They cost alot to be replaced for some people, but a brake job can easily run 800 bucks on some vehicles, tires on some vehicles are a grand, 500 to 1000 bucks is not that much to put into a car anymore.
When I was a tech at the chevy dealer I replaced countless intake manifold gaskets on 4.3 blazers and 3.1 and 3.4 motors and those ran 500 to 700 bucks a pop once it was all said and done, its no different other than timing belts money wise except it was a repair not maintainance.
I replaced the timing belt on my wifes civic at 105k miles, I did the water pump and tensioner and belt, along with a new valve cover gasket and it cost 120 bucks for Honda parts and it took me 4 hours, this included adjusting the valves. Of course the Honda civic is an easy vehicle to replace the belt on. If you asked me 7 years ago what I thought of timing belts when I just got done changing one on a GM 3.4 dohc motor I might have said something different.
P.S. Engines are not going to be going to free wheeling anytime soon, with the new CAFE regulations coming in 2016? they will have to squeeze every bit of MPG and power out of the smallest possible engine size. Interference engines are designed that way to improve volumetric efficiency.
Does your sienna have a roof rack? If so, it’s one place you could put a spare tire.
tbob350, I agree. If you are going to abuse and neglect your vehicle, a timing chain with a non-interference engine is a way to go.
all im going to say is timing belts are a pain in the but and need more maintaience.twice as much as a chain.if you have an interference engine with a belt your screwed.one little leak on that belt and your down to 10,000 miles the belt breaks and the engine is done.i agree with the timing chain with a non inteference engine
You’re comparing apples to oranges here.
If a vehicle has a timing chain on a interference engine and the timing chain slips…same problem as if a timing belt breaks - new heads.
The best design would be a timing chain with a non-interference engine. Then you may never have to worry about ever replacing the chain. But if you have a interference engine you better think about replacing that chain at 250k miles.
As for skipping a tooth with a belt…Not likely. A properly installed timing belt will break before it skips a tooth. Chains are far more likely to skip a tooth then a belt. Chains will stretch over time…a belt won’t.
Excellent post.
The best design would be a timing chain with a non-interference engine.
Unless, of course, you want to get the most from your fuel. Interference engines generally use less fuel to achieve the same horsepower as comparable non-interference engines.
Unless, of course, you want to get the most from your fuel. Interference engines generally use less fuel to achieve the same horsepower as comparable non-interference engines.
Can’t argue with that. I’d just like to have my cake and eat it too. Wish they could design a non-interference engine with the same gas mileage and performance and epa standards as a interference engine…with a chain.
As I’ve said MANY times before…if it’s an interference engine…then I’d prefer a belt.
Yes it does, I actually thought in addition to runflats to get a set of wheels and Mud/snow LT tires and when we go on a camping trip in the forests put the mud and snow tires on, with a spare strapped to the roof. My sienna has seen more soft roading in my year of owning it than most Suvs will see in a lifetime, and this is with the factory runflats.
No it is not a jeep wrangler, but for what I need it to do it does so with ease, and it is actually much better in snow than my old wrangler was, with its longer wheelbase AWD and traction control. It handles much better in the snow than the wrangler did.
I only see two drawbacks to strapping a spare to the roof rack. One is decreased fuel efficiency because of wind drag. The other drawback is that it will be exposed to direct sunlight, which may make it age prematurely; so if you do this, it might be a good idea to cover the tire before you strap it down.
One option I didn’t consider is that there might be some kind of aftermarket mounting kit so you can mount the spare on the back of the vehicle, like jeeps and some full-sized vans have. If you have a trailer hitch, there might be one that fits into the hitch receiver. I might be wrong, but there might be a good aftermarket solution like this.
Another drawback would be wind noise.
Can the loss of performance from dimpled pistons be documented? Seems unlikely.