Why not 48V batteries?

[Triedaq] Triedaq http://community.cartalk.com/users/triedaq
September 13

@kmccune http://community.cartalk.com/users/kmccune. I have great
memories of the LawnBoy push mowersm. My dad bought a new one in 1955.
The instruction manual had wonderful blow-up diagrams of the engine,
carburetor, and magneto. I mowed a lot of yards in those days. At the
end of each season, I installed new piston rings, new magneto points
and condenser,and a new needle and seat in the carburetor. The deck
was magnesium and didn’t rust. With its 2 stroke engine, the mower was
light and easy to push. Am owner could keep the mower going almost
indefinitely. The mowers were easy to push making self propellsion
unnecessary.


Visit Topic
http://community.cartalk.com/t/why-not-48v-batteries/95492/20 or
reply to this email to respond.( Yes very much so ,I let a kid use
mine and he actually broke the connecting rod by locking up the blade
with a clump of grass of all things ,I have never had a push mower I
liked better -Kevin

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Dual voltage systems may be the bridge to a new standard.

http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2016/04/13/delphi-48-volt-technology-new-cars-2017/82949374/

Kevin, no mas! No mas!

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I recall buying a Pontiac 2+2 with a 421 engine back in the late 1960’s, The original owner had installed a 24 volt kit in the car because the engine was difficult to start. If the engine failed to start with the normal 12 volt arrangement
I just turned a switch and the engine always jumped to life with the 24 volt jolt. I wish I could remember the name of the kit but it escapes me right now. I do remember that after the engine started
the kit switched everything back to 12 volts for charging and using the lights and accessories.

The 24 volt jump was a fairly common trick tow truck drivers used to crank recalcitrant engines in the winter, or so I was told. When electronics entered the automotive world the ECU’s were designed for overvoltage for that reason. They also were designed to take 12v at every pin without frying the ECU since mechanics had the tendency to voltage probe every pin looking for problems, and you never know when a short would occur.

[quote=“Bing, post:16, topic:95492”]
Aluminum is OK provided you use the proper coatings on the ends or fasteners so that you don’t get that galvanic corrosion when aluminum meets copper. [/quote]

I thought the problem was aluminum-brass contacts. I live in a house with Al wiring that electricians made safe (the claim) by splicing short pieces of copper wire between the Al wiring and brass fixtures.

Aluminum also “creeps” so a connection under a tightened screw will slowly loosen, causing resistance and heat. Those copper splices put copper back under the screws and will hold tight.

Military (at least Army) aircraft and ground vehicles used 24V batteries when I was in. I don’t know why.

Was this so long ago that the electronics used tubes? They require higher voltages.

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Aluminum house wiring had to be insulated from copper pig tails with a grease to prevent aluminum oxidation, which would lead to overheating and eventually to fires. I replaced a couple of light fixtures in my old house and used the grease on the wires before twisting them together in the wire nut. That was code in my county and I confirmed the process with an electrical construction expert before doing the work.

The wire nuts should have been special as well. Aluminum oxidizes readily and the oxide is non-conductive (unlike copper). There is also the issue of galvanic corrosion so the special wire nut and dielectric grease solve both problems.

They came out with outlets and switches specially designed (addressing the malleability and thermal coefficient of expansion differences) for aluminum wiring after the initial fiasco but it was really too late by then. The stigma was established and the price of copper came back down so it lost favor with the exception of high power distribution applications.

My last house started having flickering problems. It didn’t take too long to spot the issue. Morons that installed the power cable from the street drop to the panel (via the meter) didn’t use ANY grease on the conductors at the panel. I ended up fixing that myself and no more problems after that


We just got notice that our office building ‘will be performing the electrical repairs throughout the building from our previous infrared scans’. Sounds like some REALLY bad connections!

And back to 48V systems - this announcement is for ‘mild hybrids’. While I understand the plan, GM failed with their attempt at ‘mild hybrids’. I wonder if this will be any more successful.

A common trick in the old 6 volt days was to install an 8 volt battery in place of the 6 volt for those old "stovebolts " and what ever that didnt want to kick off ,actually helped too .

@Texas,I suppose I will never own another 2 cycle lawn mower(I like the idea of xeriscaping very much{or maybe goats ?}

I am not the least bit interested in mild hybrids. The fuel savings is minimal. GM simply does not want to pay the royalty on the high voltage hybrids patents.

I suspect that in the future, there may not be a choice, depending on your definition of “mild”. I foresee smart regulators that only recharge the battery during deceleration, shut the alternator off during acceleration, and just maintain the battery’s state of charge during cruise.
With the advent of three phase inverter technology, the alternator as we know it may become history, being replaced by a three phase induction motor that can both boost the engine’s output and recharge the battery. No brushes to wear out!

In industrial applications, DC motors are rapidly being replaced with inverter driven three phase motors, especially as the technology becomes more and more affordable.

I am convinced GM’s mild hybrids were built pretty much for the sole purpose of lowering the company’s CAFE

I would say many, perhaps most, were sold for fleet use

Kind of like E85 . . . it’s just somebody producing and marketing something, so that their “numbers” look good on paper

And “somebody” can pat themselves on the back, and announce to the world, that they’re taking steps to save the world, save the american farmers, be less dependent on foreign oil, etc.

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Commercial airliners use 115 volt, 400hz systems. For example, the B727s I flew for Flying Tiger line had three 115 volt, 400hz three phase generators, and an identical generator turned by the APU (some of the airlines couldn’t make up their mind about even having an APU, so they stuck it in keel beam in wheel well Needless to say, you can’t run the APU in flight).

Through “T/R” units (transformer/rectifiers) 28 volt AC and DC was provided.

I remember well the 32 volt DC system on railroad coaches. The 32 volt batteries were charged by a generator driven by a belt around the axle. These batteries provided the power for the lights and blowers that circulated the air. Steam was produced by a steam generator in the locomotive and was used for heating and air conditioning. There was an inverter that was used for a 120 volt outlet in the men’s room to power an electric shaver
The modern Amtrak coaches receive 480 volt three phase power generated in the locomotive.

Speaking of Amtrak, since Amtrak is constantly bleeding money but freight trains are apparently doing well, why not mixed freight and passenger trains? I see no reason why some BNSF or SP freight train couldn’t have a passenger coach in back for people who really want to travel economy class.
Just an idea!

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