Putting electric charging units in apartments and condos will not be a problem. The problem is the energy required by hydrogen cars. Here’s one comparison, shows a hydrogen car requires more than twice the electricity as an EV. We can’t afford to generate that much excess power, much less the cost of the hydrogen distribution system… http://www.metricmind.com/data/bevs_vs_fcvs.pdf
Latest guess from Toyota is that they can bring a fuel cell vehicle to market in 2015 for $50,000. Not apparent to me that this is a path worth following.
I watched that one right after I watched the 20th documentary on “peak oil” that I have seen this year alone (that makes for almost one a day),Thank You Netflixs.
I feel the EV is a reasonable alternative for much of the population…BUT NOT FOR $40K; GM ! And not in high load vehicles !
The hydrogen fuel cell sounds like something I’m not going to trust to the local gas station to dispense in dangerous liquid form; with third degree burns from leaks and blindness just from the vapor when it hits your eyes.
No thanks ! There is a concerted effort backed by corporate sponsored politicians (Bushes) who support us getting back onto depending upon the same corporations we are now. Paying price gouging costs for a dispensed hydrogen fuel from the same pumping stations we now “enjoy”.
The Hydrogen fuel cell is best left to the military along with nuclear energy (just a feeble analogy) and other forms of restricted access fuels.
Energy companies are afraid of a proliferation of EV’s and accompanying advanced solar collectors that would allow some populations to travel ENERGY FREE. That’s available now, for a price. The EV’s strength is in it’s fuel source diversity.
Why sabotage it by limiting it to just hydrogen fuel cells when solar, wave, wind, nuke and yes oil/coal can collectively do the job cheaper. It’s not about the battery storage as long as a source is available every 100 miles. Gee, the last time I looked, it could be made available every telephone/electric pole.
Back in 2001 or so CA suffered from what is know as "rolling brownouts/blackouts. I have not heard one thing about this issue for many years now. I wonder if the generation capability was there all along and it was an allocation or contractual issue that led to the CA brownouts. Possible new plants of some type comming online? I don’t know what was the remedy for CA’s brownouts.
I have seen articles that play up the demand that will be placed on the “grid” by more electric cars and I have read articles play this same issue down. It is tough to figure out the true depth of the problem with power generation and electric cars.
I think for the near future electric cars will not overload the grid. Long term, there are lots of smart strategies to keep the impact small, mainly charging at night when there is LOTS of spare capacity on the grid. Shouldn’t be an issue for years to come. And when capacity is strained, there’s no rocket science in building additional generating capacity.
So far I have not yet seen a business model that would make electric cars a viable product.
I know of at least one. Ranchers and farmers who had these electric pick-up trucks loved them, and hated to give them up. One farmer I know has an old unregistered beater he paid $400 for, just for driving around the farm. It probably generates more pollution in one hour than my Civic generates in a year. This would be a perfect use for an electric vehicle, and it could use normal lead acid batteries, not the expensive lithium-ion batteries.
Energy companies are afraid of a proliferation of EV’s and accompanying advanced solar collectors that would allow some populations to travel ENERGY FREE. That’s available now, for a price. The EV’s strength is in it’s fuel source diversity.
Prices of solar collectors are coming down every year…AND putting out more electricity. My personal opinion is we should have another Manhattan project where we get all the top scientists together for a couple of years to solve this problem. I’ll bet it can be solved in less then a year.
Plus not everybody lives in a single family house with a driveway and garage to be able to plug in these vehicle. So all these people are out of luck with a EV unless more infrastructure. Plug in meter post installed everywhere. And what happens if all the meters are taken when you get home from work late?
americar, some electric cars use a normal 120 volt household outlet.
I currently live in an apartment, and I have one of my motorcycles hooked up to a trickle charger outside. I had to trim some of the seal around my front door to run an extension cord outside, but that wasn’t too difficult. I will just need to replace that little piece of rubber seal when I move out.
These are not insurmountable problems you seem to be over-dramatizing.
I agree. Unfortunately, the CEO of the largest producer of these newer thin film solar collectors stated that his best customers were over seas. It’s here but, your absolutely right, only the Manhattan project may be more of a frame of mind change than a science project.
Much of the overseas sales are driven by large government subsidies, not forward thinking. Solar is attractive, but still has major cost issues, along with the environmental impact of turning over thousands of acres to solar ‘farms’.
In the 1990’s a scientist developed a semi-economical way to mass produce large Nickel-Metal-hydride batteries suitable for use in EV’s…They had twice the energy density as lead-acid batteries…He patented the process. GM bought the patent and built a factory to produce the batteries which they installed in the EV-1’s and sold to other EV vehicle makers…In 2003, when GM shut down it’s EV program, they sold the battery patents and the manufacturing plant to Chevron-Texaco who immediately closed the plant and sold the equipment as salvage. To this day they sit on the patent and REFUSE to allow anyone to manufacture large NiMH batteries that could be used in an EV…The development of Lithium-Ion and Lithium-Poly batteries (used by Tesla Motors) has solved the battery problem and bypassed Chevrons attempt to suppress the production of EV’s
The next player, Hyundai, with the Sonata Hybrid, uses a 96 pound Lithium-Poly battery that produces 1.4 kw. of stored energy…It would take over 300 pounds of lead-acid to match that…
I’m sorry, I have trouble with ‘they’re sitting on a patent’ stories. Any proof?
edit - I looked into it, I understand where that comes from. Whether true or not, the company has recently (2009) been sold, so the patent souldn’t be ‘sat on’ any more. We’ll see.
Much of the overseas sales are driven by large government subsidies, not forward thinking. Solar is attractive, but still has major cost issues, along with the environmental impact of turning over thousands of acres to solar ‘farms’.
Don’t necessarily have to turn over thousands of acres for solar to be effective. Look at Wholefoods. They are all built with Solar collectors on their roofs. It works…
It is easier for a large corporation to foot the bill for a project like this…LOT easier then a homeowner. And at my age with the current costs of solar it makes no sense to me to invest in solar…HOWEVER…my kids could benefit from it. 20 year payback. Current payback is about 20 years.
For solar power to make a major impact requires quite a large area. Roof-top projects are fine, just don’t expect a lot out of them.
And a 20 year payback is long. I just think that there are probably better places (shorter paybacks) for putting money to save energy. Lots of efficiencies to be gained in many areas.
One major thing about electric car is how much running the heat or A/C reduces the range. I could imagine if your commute on a very hot or cold day runs into a back up, all that frustration could be compounded when you realize the heat and A/C needs to be shut off while sitting stopped in traffic so not to drain the battery, otherwise you will not make it home. Or the decision to not run the defroster and drive with dangerously fogy windows just to make it home ! http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/14/nissan-pegs-leaf-range-between-47-and-138-miles-individual-resu
[quote]In the 1990’s a scientist developed a semi-economical way to mass produce large Nickel-Metal-hydride…GM bought the patent and…they sold the battery patents and the manufacturing plant to Chevron-Texaco who immediately closed the plant and sold the equipment as salvage. To this day they sit on the patent and REFUSE to allow anyone to manufacture large NiMH batteries that could be used in an EV…[quote] If wikipedia is to be believed, the patent was applied for in '82…so this ought to be public domain, without anything left to “sit on?”
I guess I am looking at a near guarantee after 10 years you will have a $3,000 battery replacement cost. That factor is not included in the cost of ownership.
You people are way behind in what is happening now.
The Chevy Volt, on sale this year , with Gov. kickback is approx $34k. Thats the price of a pick-up or SUV. Many Americans can afford this. The cost for electicity is the same as running a drying machine per year.
Many companies, alot of them unheard of before ,are going to export electric vehicles to the USA in the next couple of years.Many companies that are well known are introducing all electric vehicles starting this fall.