Interesting. And fun. Thanks for all the answers.
Memory Lane
Woodward Avenue Runs From Detroit, North To The Suburbs. It Was A Major Drag Racing Capitol In The 60s And 70s.
I grew up (kindergarten through high school and beyond) in the northern suburbs (Birmingham), just 2 miles from Woodward.
It was our standard operating procedure during high school to cruise a tank of gas out one of our cars on Woodward nearly every week-end. You literally drove on an active muscle car dragway.
We cruised chicks at all the fast food drive-ins, watched and took part in the drags, and it was a blast.
My best friendâs sister was dating a guy who bought one of the very first GTOs, 3 deuces, a 4-speed, and a 389. He got a plain beige one so that heâd have a âsleeper.â It looked like an economy LeMans (except for the engine logo and if I remember correctly, red-line tires). He was living the dream.
CSA
Back in the early 70s the city here decided to widen and resurface an arrow straight 3 mile long section of road leading to the local Air Force base. They did a top notch job on this. One night after it was finished and before it was reopened for traffic someone went out there one night and painted 2 bright yellow lines across the entire width of the roadway; including the shoulders.
Both lines were exactly and conveniently located 1320 feet apartâŠ
Even more amazing was that no one in the city street department questioned why those lines were there and never made any attempt to remove them. The barricades came down, the road equipment was removed, and the lines remained.
At night there was almost no traffic on that stretch and Iâve visited it myself a couple of times.
The main drag here sounds like the one mentioned by CSA. Back in the day, Friday and Saturday nights meant that road was full of GTOs, Mustangs, Chevelles, Camaros, and so on along with a few of the best; MoparsâŠ
Most races were not 1/4 mile; more like 1 to 2 blocks due to traffic and lights. Serious grudgeholders would often migrate to the road near the AFB or to the 4 lane north of town.
Several people get killed in illegal street racing every year
Itâs often innocent people who are not even participating, theyâre just in the wrong place at the wrong time
To make it crystal clear, Iâm not talking about spectators getting killed. Iâm talking about people that are just going about their business.
Itâs obviously not okay for spectators to get killed, either. But they know theyâre part of an illegal activity, which is often very poorly coordinated
@db4690
Youâre Correct. Woodward Avenue, On Week-End Nights, Was No Place For The Squeamish.
There Were Accidents, Some Bad Ones, Caused By Teen-Agers With Hormone Overload, Immature Thinking Skills, And Excess Horsepower And A Need For Speed!
Yet, this drag racing event is still celebrated annually with an enormous muscle car parade on that very famous stretch of road.
Info:
http://woodwarddreamcruise.com/
http://www.madmanmike.com/woodward_dream_cruise.html
CSA
@âcommon sense answerâ
I enjoyed those links . . . thanks
Taste obviously differs . . . I didnât particularly like the look of gigantic rims and super low profile fat rims on older vehicles . . . but others may think it looks great
@db4690
"Taste obviously differs . . . I didnât particularly like the look of gigantic rims and super low profile fat rims on older vehicles . . ."
I Could Not Agree More.
CSA
But I do respect the amount of work that went into some of those cars
Even the ones I consider ugly represent many hours of work and a lot of money spent getting them to look that way
Which ones had the best engines and handling? The ones from Europe⊠All American Iron shys away from handling in a big wayâŠ
Everyone is going to have their own answer, but if they were honest they would tell you that none of them âHandledââŠthey made wonderful noises, went in a straight line wellâŠand looked great, but as a well handling package, it honestly wasnt a too much of a concern in those daysâŠor at least by the American Auto industry. An industry that reshaped and rebadged the same basic equipment over and over and over Ad NauseumâŠjust wrap in in new sheet metal paint it and ship it out⊠Nevermind the technology hadnt moved in decades, it was a formula that made quite a few very wealthy. Even as a child I recognized thisâŠalmost every car of the time is basically the same. Imagine if you could design something and rebadge it over and over for decades⊠There is money there. The old muscle cars are enjoyable and almost every one has a fan baseâŠthis being mostly because of emotional attachmentsâŠit certainly wasnt because they could be taken to a race track and steered through the curves. I have my favorites and owned a few myself, but if I were honest Iâd say they were crap for any kind of handling or packagingâŠbut they had style and powerâŠthats what sold them.
Blackbird
This Which classic muscle cars? Thread Has Been Therapeutic.
Now I Know Why I Have Such A Strong Allegiance To My Chevrolets And Pontiacs And No Desire To Own Or Ride In Asian Or European Cars!
Thatâs It! They Are In My Blood From Birth. They Are Part Of Who I Am. I Feel At Home In My Grand Prix Or Bonneville Or Impala, Not Like Iâm In A Car From A Far Away Land That Was Part Of Somebody Elseâs Culture.
(See: The changes that 68 years can produce)
@Marnet
Thanks, Marnet. I feel better than ever and I feel an even stronger attachment to these wonderful American cars, born and raised in the U.S.A. for Americans born and raised in the U.S.A.
CSA
But you must consider that the US is all about football while Europe is all about futball @Blackbird.
I keep thinking about the âmuscle carâ classification. In 1949, the Oldsmobile introduced its OHV eight cylinder engine. It was initially intended for the larger body 98, but was also made available in the smaller A body that Oldsmobile shared with Chevrolet. This was the Oldsmobile 88. We had a friend that had the 1950 Olds 88 fastback with a manual transmission and it was one of the fastest cars on the road in 1950. In 1951, Chrysler introduced the hemi V8. That engine not only made it into the larger body New Yorker, but was also available in the smaller body and called the Saratoga. Isnât installing the bigger engine in a,smaller body the same thing that Pontiac did in 1964 to create the GTO? Back in the late 1930s, Buick installed the Roadmaster engine in the smaller body and called it the Century. Maybe this was the original muscle car.
Putting a manufacturerâs biggest and most powerful V8 in the smallest car does not necessarily make it a muscle car
The Mercedes-Benz 560SL had a 5.6 liter V8. It was literally the biggest V8 that Benz had at the time, in the smallest car.
I think weâll all agree that was no muscle car . . . ?
Following up on Triedaqâs thoughtâŠparents had a 1956 Olds 88 with the V8 âRocketâ engine. That car could move when needed. Floor it to pass another car and the back end squatted down a trifle while the car launched. Then in 1987 I factory ordered an Olds Cutless Ciera base model (all I could afford without a loan) but with the bigger 3.8L engine that normally went only into top luxury trim Olds or Buicks. Again, the fun and function of a bigger engine than average for the size car. I always had fun when mechanics driving my car for the first time got behind the wheel expecting the smaller 3.3L engine only to discover my buggy had all that nice low end torque and giddy-up. :-))
@âcommon sense answerâ Glad you are enjoying the discussion thread. So am I! Good fun. And I am still learning lots new reading through all the responses.
Regarding drag racing on a public street I freely admit that I participated in the pasttime. HOWEVER, I never did it in such a manner which endangered anyone else in any way, shape, or form.
As far as I know, there has never been a drag racing injury or fatality in this area although there has been a few blown motors, trashed rear ends, and a lot of bruised egos.
Iâve seen on TV some of those idiot types who race in traffic or with an even more idiotic mob who line the sides of the street. Itâs impossible for me to dredge up sympathy for someone who loiters along a curb while cars go by at 100 MPH. That idiocy reminds me of the European rally racers and fans standing alongside a dirt road.
On another note, I was with a friend one night night who had a BAD '69 Firebird with a 400 and Posi rear axle. We were sitting at the light on the edge of town and some smartaxx punk pulled up in a beautiful Cyclone GT with a 428 and dual four barrels. It wasnât much of a race as my buddy blew this guy into the weeds.
Being diplomatic my buddy pulled over to offer a somewhat insincere âgood raceâ comment and the guy had the hood up screaming and cursing about âone of the four barrels ainât workingâ.
The guy driving the Cyclone? An off-duty Oklahoma state trooper whom everybody knew just because of the carâŠ
Maybe we could call the 560SL a muscle car. Muscle cars were quick in a straight line, but the suspension didnât provide handling like a sports car for the most part. It seems to me that the 560SL had a softer suspension for touring and would not hadle as well as a sports car. The 560SL has other attributes that make it a touring car as well. If we can agree on a definition of the muscle car, we can ferret it the cars that donât quite match. Would todayâs AMG sedans and coupes be muscle cars? They certainly have the engines for it.
Toyota officially calls my car a âsports coupeâ. I call it just a âcoupeâ or a âhatchbackâ.
Classifying cars is far, far from a perfect science.
If you like Vettes, here is a barn find (warehouse find) in New York. To be restored. Iâd even take a couple of the older ones.
âItâs impossible for me to dredge up sympathy for someone who loiters along a curb while cars go by at 100 MPH.â
What about a mother and child who are just minding their own business in their own neighborhood, and are struck and killed by illegal drag racers?
What about a guy on his way home, who is struck and killed by an illegal drag racer, who lost control of his car?
Neither of those victims was lining the curb, watching the show