# Where are the diesels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Power/Fuel\ **Tags:** hybrid-repair, diesel, fuel-economy\ **Created:** [December 6, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404 "2009-12-06T05:43:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/21 "2009-12-09T20:48:08Z")
Ford sold a Diesel Escort. Nobody would buy them. They had an excellent Mitsubishi (I think) engine… Diesel nuts have a way of ignoring or glossing over the on-going emissions issues. All but VW need urea exhaust filters to squeak through emissions tests and VW is having plenty of problems with its new TDI’s with CEL’s illuminating disappointed owners dashboards…Vehicles classified as “Heavy duty trucks” have much lower emissions standards and these vehicles sell like hot cakes… ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/22 "2009-12-09T22:53:53Z")
And the urea reservoir needs to be refilled periodically. Time and money. ---
**Author:** ![oldschool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e19adc/32.png) [@oldschool](https://community.cartalk.com/u/oldschool)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/23 "2009-12-10T00:11:10Z")
Joseph,you and I are finally on the same page with “individual experiences don’t really tell much” as I replaced plenty of those mid-70’s diesels. They were extremely popular though. Me can’t stand the smell of the fuel,either raw or burned,never have and never will. ---
**Author:** ![meaneyedcatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/meaneyedcatz/32/692_2.png) [@meaneyedcatz](https://community.cartalk.com/u/meaneyedcatz)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/24 "2009-12-10T02:14:00Z")
Ford sold a Diesel Escort. I hear what your saying but lets get into this century. Yes the Escort could be had with a diesel and also the Chevy Chevette but that was 20-30 years ago. I want diesel options for todays cars. ---
**Author:** ![wentwest](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/wentwest/32/6073_2.png) [@wentwest](https://community.cartalk.com/u/wentwest)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/25 "2009-12-16T01:28:24Z")
Where I started this was that in Europe pretty much every manufacturer we know here has diesels. I saw Chrysler PT Cruisers and vans, Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas, Opels, Ford products, etc. They were all diesels. So they know how to make them, in quantity, and compliant with emission standards. I’m reading a lot of excuses here, but I don’t really see any good explanation for the situation. Unless it’s the idea that the military and the home heating oil market wants all that fuel, and the refiners can’t make enough. Which seems like nonsense to me. Years ago I decided that my epitaph should be “I don’t get it.” ---
**Author:** ![dagosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/dagosa/32/9837_2.png) [@dagosa](https://community.cartalk.com/u/dagosa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 1:50am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/26 "2009-12-16T01:50:54Z")
As you can see by the # of my responses, I’m a diesel freak too. Like I said, the average guy just doesn’t know. But, knowing that a home project cost me 75% more over one weekend when plywood was being sent en mass to Iraq, makes me a real cynic on our ability to compete with defense for fuel whose budget is nearly as much as the entire rest of the world combined. It seems they have emergency supplements that allow them to reach out and grab a resource when ever needed. Though necessary it is, it’s too difficult, IMO for car companies to work around here. Diesel price could go through the roof w/o a subsidy. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/27 "2009-12-16T17:16:01Z")
“So they know how to make them, in quantity, and compliant with emission standards. I’m reading a lot of excuses here, but I don’t really see any good explanation for the situation.” You asked to wrong crowd. How could we know anything about this? If any of us worked for an auto manufacturer and knew the answer, we wouldn’t tell you. You need to ask the right people: Chrysler, GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc. Maybe they will share with you. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2009, 6:37pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/28 "2009-12-16T18:37:22Z")
“So they know how to make them, in quantity, and compliant with emission standards.” Not true. Most European diesels do not meet US emissions regs. ---
**Author:** ![dagosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/dagosa/32/9837_2.png) [@dagosa](https://community.cartalk.com/u/dagosa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/29 "2009-12-17T21:56:52Z")
The simplest reason may be the right one. I’ve been told by car reps. that diesel follows the money. It’s govt. encouraged in Europe, so they know it’s a sale. People aren’t clamoring for them here and little support, except “right here” on CT. Urea refill for a MB is 10K, so it’s part of every other oil change and not factor. It can be done, the demand and $$$ draw isn’t here…yet. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/30 "2009-12-17T23:48:45Z")
“Urea refill for a MB is 10K, so it’s part of every other oil change and not factor.” I wonder if there are enough MB diesels for anyone but the dealer to provide the urea refill? ---
**Author:** ![dagosa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/dagosa/32/9837_2.png) [@dagosa](https://community.cartalk.com/u/dagosa)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/31 "2009-12-18T00:41:50Z")
The point is, to be compliant, it can’t add to the drivers inconvenience, not the MB is the benchmark in making them. When enough manufactures can do it without, it still won’t make a difference until the market is there. ---
**Author:** ![DavidKelly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@DavidKelly](https://community.cartalk.com/u/DavidKelly)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/32 "2009-12-23T20:05:34Z")
We most certainly do have low sulfur diesel. ULSD is all that is available with LSD either outlawed or soon to be outlawed. ULSD is every bit as low in sulfur as European diesel. The big problem is that a “clean” diesel engine is very complex and expensive to build. I have a 2008 F-250 Powerstroke diesel and a 2007 Prius and believe the Ford is more complex. The Prius has two cooling systems, one for the engine and one for the electrics. But the Powerstroke has 6 or 7 radiators. One for the engine coolant, one for the turbocharger’s intercooler, one for the transmission, and I don’t know what else but they are there. As for the notion that diesel is a “high level fuel”, no. A diesel engine will run on a wide variety of fuels. But once the engine controls get complex enough for gasoline-equivalent emissions it makes the fuel choice is limited. My Powerstroke’s fuel rail runs at 30,000 psi which requires a non-trivial fuel pump and filters. If the pump and injectors had to support a wide variety of fuels then they would be even more complex. No doubt in a few years we’ll learn how to make such pumps but not yet, and in the mean time the path with be bumpy. Ford/International say my engine may use no more than 5% biodiesel. Fords new 6.7L diesel due out next year is rated for 20%. ---
**Author:** ![the\_same\_mountainbike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@the\_same\_mountainbike](https://community.cartalk.com/u/the_same_mountainbike)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/33 "2009-12-23T21:20:29Z")
I don’t personally see any advantage to diesels over a modern gas engines in the U.S. Diesel is cheaper than gas in Europe. It’s more expensive than gas in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/34 "2009-12-23T22:09:07Z")
“Diesel is cheaper than gas in Europe. It’s more expensive than gas in the U.S.” Yes, but it has to be about a dollar more per gallon to equal the cost per mile for fuel. It isn’t even close to that now. ---
**Author:** ![Caddyman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/caddyman/32/23_2.png) [@Caddyman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Caddyman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/35 "2009-12-24T00:18:08Z")
But it could be by next summer…People remember… ---
**Author:** ![kmccune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/kmccune/32/1237_2.png) [@kmccune](https://community.cartalk.com/u/kmccune)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/36 "2009-12-24T00:35:54Z")
Ford sold a Diesel “Tempo” for awhile also-Kevin ---
**Author:** ![kmccune](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/kmccune/32/1237_2.png) [@kmccune](https://community.cartalk.com/u/kmccune)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/37 "2009-12-24T00:40:31Z")
They are coming,a few here and there now.(Pilot or one of the big ones is starting to install urea dispensors)-Kevin ---
**Author:** ![jtsanders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c2a13f/32.png) [@jtsanders](https://community.cartalk.com/u/jtsanders)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/38 "2009-12-24T00:41:46Z")
" But it could be by next summer…People remember…" Even though prices were over $5.00 a while back, diesel was never $1 more than regular. Not that it can’t happen, but it hasn’t yet. ---
**Author:** ![wentwest](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/wentwest/32/6073_2.png) [@wentwest](https://community.cartalk.com/u/wentwest)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/39 "2009-12-25T01:09:06Z")
The price of fuel is pretty much determined by taxation and the international price of petroleum. The fact is cars use less diesel to go the same places. Diesels are inherently more efficient. And it appears building diesels can be done at much the same price point as gas engines, which is not true of hybrid power. I’m not talking about markup by manufacturers, which seems to be not an issue in Europe where it seems diesel is the standard. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404/40 "2009-12-25T03:00:18Z")
"And it appears building diesels can be done at much the same price point as gas engines, which is not true of hybrid power. " I’m aware of no diesels that sell for the same price as gas engined-versions. Typically a $1500 increment for diesel, which is definitely less than the $3000 or so for hybrids. Go to the Ford UK website, you can see the added cost for diesels. [Previous page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404.md?page=1) [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/where-are-the-diesels/40404.md?page=3)