No car engine has ever been damaged by changing the oil too often…Untold numbers of engines have been destroyed by extending the drain interval too long and/or letting the oil level get too low…Greatly improved engine designs and PCV systems along with better motor oils allow for extended drain intervals. 5000 miles, even 7500 miles under ideal conditions…But I think 10,000 mile drain intervals is pushing the limit in most cases…This is especially true when you consider how many cars are running around with maybe half as much oil in the crankcase as is necessary for proper engine lubrication…
@wesw In the 70s the quality of engine oils was much lower and the viscosity was very inconsistent, so a 10W30 was considered by many to be a good compromise. It was not till the latter part of the 80s that the SAE and API toughened up the oil spec with respect to “staying in grade”. We’ve had very good oils since.
Fuel efficiency standards came in in the 70s, but only for cars. So the 5w30 became the “standard” oil for passenger vehicles. My 1977 Pontiac Lemans, 1977 Colt and 1976 Granada all called for this oil. Trucks did not have to meet any fuel standards, so they may have stuck to 10W30 oils. There were very few synthetics in the 70s as well.
In other words, a 70s Chevy truck with the same V8 as a Chevy Impala car may have different oil specs. It also had a larger oil filter!
The clearances and seals of 70s vehicles would have been very inadequate for 5W20 and 0W20 oils. Indeed, many drivers of older vehicles found when they switched to synthetics the vehicle started to use oil, because this oil is very slippery and can use a thin film to provide adequate lubrication. However that will also cause oil loss in older, loose vehicles.
Climate, as you now know, plays a large role in oil selection. If you live in Minnesota, park outside without a block heater, and use 10W30 oil, you will incur very rapid engine wear during those cold starts and warm-ups. The reason engines are so durable now is to a large part due to improved lubricants with a wide viscosity range. I would use 0W30 synthetic if I lived there. A 100,000 mile life without oil consumption used to be the exception rather than the rule.
Since you don’t incur very low temperatures, a 10W might be OK in those older vehicles. The W40 part is entirely unnecessary, unless you do heavy trailer towing.
@missileman
You are comparing apples to oranges. The web site compares synthetic to synthetic. Over any number if miles you choose, mineral base oils suffer break down and do not perform as well as synthetic even when they have a lower weight ! That’s why a car manufacturer can recommend 0w-20 in place of 5w-30 weight in mineral oil and up the change interval. Now you are on a Mobile one web site. Of course a higher weight synthetic is better then a lower weight synthetic for towing. " I do a lot of towing so I guess that’s why I prefer a heavier weight " says nothing about if you are using synthetic or not. If you have always used short change intervals and mineral oil, of course it makes sense. If you are using synthetic and longer change intervals, it also makes sense. If you are conflating the two, it doesn’t. Mineral oils break down faster over time ( mileage) and don’t maintain their rating as long because of it.
up until recently my 75 ford did quite a bit of heavy work, as did my previous one. I know some people who use 15w40 in their older trucks.
@caddyman
" no car engine has ever been damaged by changing the oil too soon"
Given the number of people who do it and studies on the effect to the environment, it does damage the environment. Given that your car can last longer using synthetic and a longer interval, it makes more sense.
I have a 5 gallon bucket of old oil now that I need to get disposed of properly. if I had a proper shop id build a waste oil heater. I m going to use some of my concrete blocks to buil a rocket cooker for grilling outside with yard waste.
we have a metal firepit that I have made into a two level cooker for grilling out side but it uses a lot of wood and takes time to burn down to coals.
I like to cook for free…
@dagosa … I do not currently own a vehicle that requires synthetic oil so I don’t use it. I just ran across the Mobil-1 statement and thought it dovetailed in with my thoughts. In hindsight…it might not have been the best example out there but the point raised is still valid. I’m not a big believer in synthetic oil but I know I could use it if need be. I have nothing against synthetics but I just don’t believe all their hype. It’s a personal choice…nothing more…nothing less.
" So the 5w30 became the “standard” oil for passenger vehicles. My 1977 Pontiac Lemans, 1977 Colt and 1976 Granada all called for this oil".
@Docnick–That’s interesting. The manual for my 1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass with a 260 cubic inch V-8 engine called for either 10W-30 or 10W-40. Later, it was found that certain brands of 10W-40 caused carbon build-up on the piston tops. I had this problem as I was using 10W-40 and would have to treat my car to a can of Casite Motor Tune-up once a month. I switched to 10W-30 and the problem disappeared. I didn’t even know 5W-30 was available until I bought a new 1985 Ford Tempo. For a while, I had a hard time finding 5W-30 on the shelves.
“The information I have for Triedaq’s 2011 Sienna show that it was always 0W20/10,000 mile oil change. I found no revisions”
@Nevada_545
I bought my 2011 Sienna in the spring of 2010. I actually had my choice of a 2010 or 2011. The owner’s manual did require 0W-20 but specified a 5000 mile oil change. The maintenance light still comes on at 5000 miles. However, I received a letter from Toyota in the summer of 2010 that lengthened the oil change interval to 10,000 miles. I had the vehicle in for a 5000 mile oil change and the service manager (not the service writer) showed me a letter from Toyota that revised the oil change interval. I then received a letter directly from Toyota in the mail about a week later with the revised interval of 10,000 miles instead of 5000 miles.
I did not have the light reprogrammed, so it comes on at 5000 miles. I think about my driving conditions when it comes on and then decide whether to turn it off and keep going or change the oil.
@Triedaq Manufacturers had to also include other grades since 5W30 was not universally available. So, for higher temperatures, 10W30 would be an acceptable alternative.
The late 70s saw the first Shell synthetic, a 0W30 “Shell Synarctic”. I started using it when working in the far North. It was actually a semi-synthetic and priced at $3.50 per quart. Full synthetic at that time went for $7.50 or so.
I have not used 10W30 since the early 70s. We get winter temperatures down to -35 to -40. We cannot always use the block heaters since you need an electrical outlet.
Fortunately, the temperatures in my locality never get as low as -35 to -40. I remember one winter where the overnight temperature went down to -24 F. I was able to get the Ford Maverick I owned at the time off the road, but my long driveway was clogged with snow, so the Maverick was at the end of the driveway. I received a call the next morning from a colleague who had a plumbing problem and I told her that if I could get my car started, I would come see what I could do. The Maverick cranked slowly with its 10W-40 oil, but it started on the first try. About the only vehicles on the road when I drove into town were plumbing trucks and auto service vehicles.
That was one of the few times that I really liked that Maverick.
Atlantic oil made 5W20 and 20W40 oils before 5W30 oils were common,in the early 60s, I used the 5W20 because I lived a mile and a half from work and I was a truck drive and my car would sit outside for days and then have to start at 4 am.
I have had several vehicles from the 1990s and even newer, where the manufacturer specifically called for 10w30
Given the number of people who do it and studies on the effect to the environment, it does damage the environment.
Well, draining the oil and illegally dumping it sure is bad for the environment! It sits on top of water, rendering it undrinkable and unfit for fauna. (Sure does keep the mosquitoes down, though!)
But it is really easily to recycle oil, where it either gets re-refined, or repurposed as heating oil. Obviously recycling is best, ecologically, but simply burning it isn’t appreciably worse than the crudely-refined heating oils it stands in for. Of course, you can outlaw waste oil heat, but that just makes it an expensive liability vs an asset, and incentivizes illegal dumping. (CA outlaws watse oil heat…and I think most of it winds up in NV.)
Just dispose of it properly…you can even get paid! (if you don’t live in CA)…and you’re doing better by the environment the EPA expects you to, statistically.
@missleman.
In this day and age of "robust " advertising claims, I understand your skepticism. Synthetics have been around long enough though and have been tested by independent agencies and used in the field long enough to show their superiority is not hype. Manufacturers and their warranties are the last word as they have a vested interest in these products. They do not make oil, they use it. Extended interval changes using a quality synthetic in the weight specified over a mineral oil (blends don’t count as full synthetics) and the ability to go the life of the car using synthetic lubes in other parts, tells you all you have to know. They work. The idea that changing mineral oils more frequently is better is old school thought that we old school guys have a tough time grasping as not the best idea.
With respect to frequent oil changes being bad for the environment, the service station oil gets recycled into new oil or it goes to the refinery and becomes part of the overall crude oil feed. In many cases, it is used as a fuel, with special heaters designed to use it.
The real damage to the environment is having a car die prematurely because the engine fails or is worn out too soon. All that energy used to make the car is then wasted. And not all the materials can be recycled.
I think the idea that used oil is bad for the environment may be dated, if for no other reason than I now get paid for the used oil that I used to have to pay to dispose.
where can I get paid for used oil?
I get paid by my local scrapyard. They use it to fire their smelter, which they use to melt “irony aluminum” down into pure ingots. Oil is a valued commodity on the market, but usually there is a threshold amount you have to have to make it worth their while to come get it.
I’d consider Craigslist, your local business classifieds, or a scrap yard if you want to get paid. Save it up in 5-gal drums…more convenient that way.
yeah, I have a full 5 gal bucket now.