Thanks for the suggestion. I actually thought I should look at Civics too. That appealed to me because there was more of a chance of getting a good used one than the Fit. How similar is the milage? And how do you find out the true milage of a car? Is there someplace online I could look?
I wasn’t clear when I described my driving pattern. Even though I’m rural, it’s NJ, so there’s more stop and go driving than true highway driving. Even on the highways there’s lots of slowing for merging traffic and often stop lights.
I have a 2007 Toyota Yaris liftback and it has a lot of room in it. It has more room than the Yaris sedan does even though it appears to be a smaller car. (I don’t really like the sedan) It was inexpensive - $14,200.00 out the door and cheap to insure.
As far as the Echo is concerned, it is my understanding that the Yaris has replaced the Echo.
So, my vote is for a Yaris. Btw - I get 30 mpg in city driving. I haven’t driven it on the highway enough to know its mileage for that sort of driving.
Finding the true mileage of a car involves several identical trips and filling up at the same station, same pump, and same gas. I stop at the first click, with the modern emission controls it is not a good idea to try to “top up” the tank. When buying a car this is not nescessary; just look up the EPA numbers and compare the various cars. They will all be equally optimistic, except the hybrids, they are wildly optimisic!!If you take the EPA published figures for older cars, subtract 20-25%, you will get a figure good enough for budgeting. With oil going to $100 a barrel soon, fuel economy will be a major consideration when yo plan to purchase a new car.
The new EPA regs introduced this year are more realistic.
I would strongly recommend against a used VW Golf; they are no more reliable than your last one and expensive to repair, even though they are made in Mexico (Puebla)in a plant that has had many problems, by VW’s own admission. A friend of mine is an automotive engineer, specializing in accident reconstruction. He warned his girlfriend not to buy a Golf, but she liked the little car. So far, many parts (plastic) have fallen off and the electrical system has a mind of its own. A used Echo, on the other hand is agood buy; this little car seems to be nearly bullet-proof and has a lot of happy owners. But its a little crowded if you want to carry your German shepherd dog in the back.
Here’s whats worked for me. I put my vehicle in service 41 months ago. It’s COMPLETELY paid for. My TOTAL cost for purchase, regular maintenance and repairs including items such as tires has been $25,274. I have driven 101,034 miles and have averaged 43.76mpg combined city/hwy driving. My lowest figure has been 36mpg and my highest was 55mpg steady highway.
The overall condition of the car is good. I would take it cross country without hesitation and the only oil the engine burns is the diesel I put in it. Yes I’m talking about the VW golf. Now here’s “the rest of the story”. My golf is a 99 and has 284,218 total miles on it! Granted early on I put some expensive (dealer) repairs into it. However with regular maintenance I fully expect to go ANOTHER 101,000 miles. How many hybrids do you think would go that far…and how many expensive battery changes in addition to other repairs incurred. I wouldn’t want to be trying to sell mine if its mileage was at the end of its battery life. Resales gonna be the pits.
I would not want this on my obituary, He,She got really great gas mileage from the car He,she died in.
As in self defense bring enough gun, on the road, drive enough car.
Too many big rigs out there to be riding in a golf cart, get at least a Corolla, decent size, good reputation, decent mileage. My friend bought a Prius for the mileage, his constant passenger plainly stated to me too small, and the size scares him. Better yet a Camry, had one for 7 trouble free years, went up to the Avalon…get 34 MPG on the highway.
Buzz, you are one of the special people who can make a VW work for you. At exactly $0.25/mile your operating cost to date is reasonable. As other posters pointed out, the older VW diesels were simple and uncomplicated, and the engines were quite reliable. My main issue is with Mexican-built gas units loaded with unreliable accessories. The new Golf will be imported from Germany and will have an up-to-date diesel with particulate trap, etc. Such a car will be better on fuel consumption than a hybrid if you do a lot of highway driving. Overall cost would compare well over 200,000 miles since a new battery might be in order for the hybrid. In a very cold climate, however, a diesel needs special knowledge to operate. Many people are not prepared for this.
If your driving is stop & go, a small gas powered Echo, Yaris or Fit would be cheaper to operate, but these are not comfortable highway cars.
Dream Car? The Prius? Really? OK, to each their own I suppose.
The Fit would fit the bill (pun intended).
Honda’s 4 cylinder engines seem to be among the best there is to be had. The Fit’s puny 1.5 litre engine is fuel efficient and most likely reliable.
You have to drive with the tachometer’s needle somewhere at about 4,000 to 5,000 rpm just to get moving, but once you are moving none of that matters, and that’s where you’d save the most on gas.
Then, there is also the bragging rights - you could tell everybody you drive a Honda.
Buzz, you are one of the special people who can make a VW work for you
Thanks for the compliment Doc. Actually I’m not particularly enamored of VW, but I am of diesel and right now they’re the only game in town. I live in Connecticut which is climatically similar to most of Western Europe where 50% of the vehicles are diesel. I dont use a block heater but have never failed to start at temps as low as 2*Fh (providing the battery is fully amped). The engine WILL run rough till warm-up and is even noisier than normal but is fine after approx 15 minutes of driving (not idle). My understanding is that there will soon be much more choice in the market besides VW and MB with Japan, Korea and the domestic market entering the fray. BTW my golf was German produced which may help explain my good fortune
I think that a lot of people incorrectly assume that bigger is automatically safer. Personally, I would rather be in a modern small car with side curtain air bags than a pick-up truck or SUV with a high center of gravity.
Those big rigs are involved in less than 2% of accidents nationally, and the amount of risk you take each day has a lot more to do with how you drive than what you drive. Just look at motorcycles. You are less likely to be in an accident on a motorcycle than in a car. Why? Because most motorcycle riders learn how to manage risk. We motorcycle riders don’t refer to collisions as “accidents” because there is really nothing accidental about them. Each collision has a number of contributing factors or causes, and the elimination of any one of those factors can lead to the avoidance of a collision. Most collisions are caused by a decision to ignore those factors that lead to collisions.
We (wife and I) were just going through the same dilemma. We did our homework, and fell in love with the 4 door Yaris. Have thought of the Prius, but since we are getting about 42.6 mpg with the Yaris (hwy) and 39 (city) we felt we saved about 10 grand and get great milage, we emit low emmisions, (guilt issues here globally) and have the best rated small car rated on Consummer’s Reports. There is a lot of room inside, and it handles fantastically at highway speeds.
Yaris was first over Honda Fit too by this consumer report. Huge trunk space. Reliability made me stay with Toyota too. We will drive this for a long time. Good luck, and get a Yaris. Kris
I suggest looking at cars and their ratings. Do not look at the 2007 or prior numbers, only look at the 2008 or later numbers as the prior numbers did not give results for hybrids comparable to those for standard arrangements. This is expected to be corrected for 2008.
Looking at this or that technology as expecting the technology to make the difference is not really a good idea. We need more time for technology to mature before we can really say it is better or worse. It does show promise and it may well be the best for you, but don't rule out something just on the basis of technology.
A late model Civic is hard to beat for mpg as well as quality, and they have a relatively long wheelbase for a small car and plenty of airbags for extra stability and safety. New ones aren’t that expensive.
BTW, We just bought a Prius for commuting to work and love it so far. We’re even planning to sell our station wagon and make the Prius our main car. I’m finding that highway mpg is just as good as city mpg if you don’t over-accelerate and use cruise control. We’ve been getting over 49 mpg in mostly highway driving. Our Prius came well equipped with stability control for under $24,000. We’re saving close to $100 a month in gas compared to a car that was getting 25 mpg, so that helps offset the monthly car payment.
It would appear that your driving pattern might make a Prius pay for itself; saving $100 per month or $1200 per year would be $12,000 in 10 years, which would pay for any cost premium quite easily. In my own case, our combined gas cost for 2 cars is $139 per month so far this year, since I spend more miles in rented cars than in my own. If you drive a lot and your previous car only got 25mpg, driving a Prius or a diesel would result in significant savings. However, if you only need a samall car, and do not drive more than 10,000 miles per year, the samll car (Echo,Yaris,Fit) would be more economical.
I bought a used echo 2 years ago with 40K miles for just $8500. What a deal - no one will ever call it beautiful which makes them go for far less than most used toyotas! It is surprisingly fun to drive. for $400 I had electric locks installed (easier in the winter and with kids) and put in better speakers. My wife and I rarely drive our Honda Accord now, it seems so heavy and feels like a true gas guzzler. The echo is oddly spacious inside. It has a couple annoying rattles but all in all it was a great deal.
I was in the same situation. From all the I have read, analyzed…I think the Honda Civic is economically better proposition. It runs great, very reliable, easy to service and maintain. Mileage is typically between (38 - 42) Also has a good resale value. I would recommend a used one though, say some where in the two year old category - b’cos of depreciation economics.