my vote for the worst is the caddy HT4100 v8 and Chrysler’s Ultra drive it came in 89 what pos
It shows you the farce of using Lithium batteries that need their own cooling system under neath a vulnerable part of a car instead of using NiMH batteries which are still in use today delivering better performance then ever thought possible in old Toyota EVs and no record of fires
That’s changed…There are Lithium batteries that are combined with a certain compound (I forget what one)…that you don’t have to have a cooling system. Saw this on Nova a couple of weeks ago.
The reason for the Lithium batteries was the size/weight reduction. The Lithium batteries are considerably smaller/lighter then the NiMH batteries of the early Toyota EV’s.
@Dagosa,while I agree that the Trade centers werent a conspiracy-I think there was more to it then meets the eye,I believe the structures were designed for a certain failure mode,due to covenants and what not.
IMO the worst engines were some of these v-banked nightmares,but on the other hand some of the best were v-banked also it depends on the application,a good TH400 was great while the TH350 and 200 could be disapointing at times. Everybody made some winners and losers.
Wouldn’t it be great to have an electric auto that you could charge at home with a bank of solar cells?-Kevin
@kmccune
Let’s put it this way…thank goodness, they don’t make high rises like they use to…and motors too.
@MikeInNH
Of course you are right about the advantages of lithium batteries…but; NiMH batteries are much cheaper, completely recyclable, very good cold weather performance, a history of excellent longevity, better safety record and still have sufficient capability in early EVs to easily deliver 100 plus Mile ranges for over 100k miles with loss of less then 20% capacity. We could be running around now with " inferior" cheaper NiMH batteries like those in the Toyota EV of years ago in vehicles that cost less then $20k by now BEFORE rebates and credits. Now we wait out the politics on battery technology and not only appease oil companies with public funds and make foreign policies on their behalf.
I forgot about the Chrysler 413. It was the best industrial engine and it would run forever. Good job Chrysler. Before there were diesels everywhere, that engine was the only choice.
I feel the gasoline of era might have a lot to do with our perception of what made a good motor. Take an older motor and feed it some of the ethanhol lased crap of today, you might have a different opinion. I saw that in marine ( lawn mowers too) motors which you sometimes keep for decades which used to be totally trouble free. Now, sputtering, hesitation and eventually adding extra filters for water and routine carb cleaning, all just to keep your sanity, are the norm. It’s amazing how well most of today’s car motors run as well as they do on this stuff. I bet we try to burn a lot more moisture then ever with today’s motors. The lauded old Chrysler slant six wouldn’t “last” very long today on anything but aviation fuel.
The motor on our generator which you wouldn’t classify as anything special years ago, now seems like the ultimate in dependability. Why ? It runs on propane. So, fuel has a big influence. Maybe that’s the great equalizer for ICE motors in the future ?
@dagosa - One reason we bought the Lexus instead of the Camry Hybrid was because of the batteries. There was hardly any trunk space. The battery pack took up half the trunk. Now with the Lithium batteries the trunk space is back.
Now if they could make the NiMH batteries as small as the Lithium batteries…we’d have something.
@MikeInNH
No one is saying that the lithium batter is not more compact, though the car design has as much to do with room available, but the NiMH battery in the Camry has a design life as long as the life of the car…and a history in Prius models, according to CR, of doing just that.
The lithium battery is yet unproven, though I would trust Toyota and has got to be much more expensive to replace. Just saying we have a serviceable battery with proven reliability…we are not using.
http://www.twocentspermile.org/?p=2411
http://www.idriveelectric.com/evs-electric-vehicle-nimh-batteries/8451/
Best engine in my experience was, hands down, the standard 455 cubic-inch (7.5 L) Rocket V8, rated at 320 hp, under the hood of a 1973 Oldsmobile 98 Regency. Sold the car for $150 in a garage sale with this note under the hood: “9,750 miles on this oil.” Buyer checked the oil and called me a liar to my face. Apologized a month later, still running on the same oil. Perfect compression check across all eight, and this ‘mini-Cadillac’ performed like a car carrying half the weight.
Best transmission was in a 1950 Studebaker Land Cruiser, the most over-engineered auto I have owned. The big engineering news was Automatic Drive transmission, developed jointly with the Detroit Gear Division of Borg-Warner, it became available for Land Cruisers in late April 1950, then spread to other models as production increased.
Automatic Drive was superior to most competitive automatics in several ways. Powered by the larger of Studebaker’s two straight-6 engines, the transmission performed flawlessly. It was air-cooled, doing without costly, complex water-cooling. It also allowed push-starts if needed, did not “creep” the car forward from a stop if the driver released the brake, and included a hill-holder that prevented rolling down an incline at idle. Selecting Reverse at more than 10 mph automatically put the transmission in Neutral to prevent damage.
The point is @dagasa - The older batteries may be good reliable batteries…but if they don’t do something with the size…then putting them in certain models (aka Camry)…then certain people like me WON’T BE BUYING THEM. The trunk space in the 07 Camry Hybrid is almost useless. Barely enough room for a set of golf clubs…As a family we couldn’t take a trip with the vehicle because there was no room for luggage for 3 people.
“Best transmission was in a 1950 Studebaker Land Cruiser, the most over-engineered auto I have owned”.
@d10Martin–If my memory serves me correctly, the Studebaker automatic transmission you describe also had a lockup feature on the torque converter that locked the torque convertor out above 30 miles per hour or so for better fuel mileage. That feature didn’t appear in other cars for about 30 years. In 1951, the Commander and Land Cruiser subdivision offered a modern V-8 engine. The powertrain on these 1951 Studebakers was probably the most advanced on the U.S. market at the time.
@Mike, I don’t argue for use of a NiMH battery over a Lithium battery in a hybrid like a Camry. I completely get it, especially when golf club room is mentioned. ;=) I argue for it’s use as a primary battery with proven success already in a small dedicated EV. I feel the lithium battery is too expensive, not fully recyclable and unproven. In ten years when your hybrid is going strong with it’s original lithium battery, I will change my mind.
Would the Teslar S perform as well with a NiMH battery ? Don’t know. Probably not, but IMHO, pretty darn close ! But fires would certainly not be an issue, along with longevity and quite as high a price. In all cars, the issue is maintenance and replacement cost for profit. NiMH batteries don’t seem to fit the over all skeme of high cost and potentially shorter life as it does with lithium batteries. Maybe For that reason, NiMH batteries are not available in large format for EVs.
I argue for it's use as a primary battery with proven success already in a small dedicated EV. IMHO, I feel the lithium battery is too expensive, not fully recyclable and unproven.
I agree 100%.
So IMHO…I don’t think either battery is good. Looks like they need another type of battery…OR find a way to redesign the vehicle so the NiMH batteries aren’t so obtrusive. The Prius was designed with the battery pack as part of the overall design. The Camry…they took an existing design and retrofitted the Hybrid into it.
Car design is about trade offs. I would argue the NiMH battery IS good enough…maybe too good even given the larger size. Toyota ain’t dumb. They ( and the rest) will only build cars that require maintenance.
I agree that the Chevy small block design and its variants are one of the best. I have a 2000 S-10 with the 4.3L which is basically a 350 V8 with two cylinders removed. This has been a good reliable engine for me and it also must be built pretty tough. I once hydrolocked the engine driving through a creek. The engine locked up hard and the starter didn’t even attempt to turn it. So, I pulled out all the spark plugs and cranked the engine over a while. The first couple seconds had geysers of water shooting from under the hood. I then put the plugs back in and the engine fired up after a somewhat extended period of cranking. I drove the truck home, changed the oil, and have suffered no ill effects since. There must have also been water in the exhaust system as I blew a huge plume of white steam out the back for the first couple miles on my trip home. I always thought that hydrolocking was almost certain death for an engine but this one seems to have survived with no issues.
I would vote for the Chrysler 2.7L engine as one of the worst in recent years. I know several people who owned vehicles with this and all had rods come through the block. Those who used conventional oil got 40-80k out of the engines. One guy used synthetic and broke 100k. The two truck driver told him he had never seen one of these go that far before the engine blew and stranded the driver and that his was a record! Before they threw rods, they usually burned oil and smoked profusely. The back end of these cars was always covered in nasty soot. It looks like these had a long list of defects with the oiling system, the water pump leaking internally to the oil when it wears out, timing chain issues, poor PCV design, and a tendency to sludge the oil. The sad thing is that these engines are nice and peppy when running well. They just do not hold up well at all. I am not a fan of Chryslers overall but this was one of the worst of the worst.
My vote for worst trans goes to the automatic in my parents 1982 Olds Cutlass Ciera when I was growing up. I doubt all the problems were related to the design of the car (see below). The thing would just decide to randomly slip/freewheel, including times when you were making a left turn through a busy intersection. If you were really gassing it, it would finally lock up and burn rubber, peeling out of the way of the oncoming traffic. If you weren’t in an unsafe situation and weren’t really gassing it, it would lock up and stall the engine. This was purchased from a GM dealer as a “new” car but we later found out it had led a prior life as a drivers education car that was loaned to the local school district as a service to the community. About 9,000 miles had been put on the car in this manner. Many unethical things had been done here and parents could have filed legal action but decided to trade the car for a Honda Accord a few years later which ran like a top. The dealer simply would not take care of them and repair or replace the transmission. They would simply turn up the idle and do things to mask the problem.
How about the iron block tech four? a great engine in a compact car or S-10-Kevin
I think you are talking about the engine they call the Iron Duke. Again, this is a variation of the small block 350. They didn’t offer this in the newer style S-10’s like the one I got. My dad had a 1996 S-10 with the 2.2 and it was a pretty gutless engine, even coupled with a manual transmission. This was an aluminum engine and I don’t believe it is a 350 variant. He had several problems with it. It pretty much blew a head gasket 2 weeks after he got it but never repeated that.
I liked the truck but not the engine so I picked up a 2000 with the 4.3L and have been very happy. I would say that any engine that can survive being hydrolocked without any issues is pretty bullet proof. Again, this is basically the 350 with two cylinders removed and everything else timed for a V6 instead of a V8.
I had one of those S-10s with the aluminum 4 cylinder and 4 speed. You’re right. It was a gutless wonder. The part of the engine block that had the boss the starter bolted onto broke loose. I called my favorite shop to see if it could be repaired. They told me it wasn’t unusual for that to happen to these engines. They declined to repair it, (Weld it back on.) saying the repair never holds up in most cases. It was a rust free South Carolina truck, so, as a project, my oldest son and I swapped a Mr Goodwrench 350 into it, along with a turbo 350. Ran pretty well. The engine was bone stock, yet the truck still ran like a scalded rabbit. A couple of months after we got it running, someone made us an offer we couldn’t turn down so we sold it.
The Iron Duke was half the Pontiac 301, not the Chevy small block.
7.3 Ford PowerStroke diesel made by Navistar was really durable and towed like a dream, too bad the tranny couldn’t handle all the torque.