# What have we learned from Prior gas shocks? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 7, 2022, 12:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859 "2022-03-07T12:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beancounter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/59ef9b/32.png) [@Beancounter](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Beancounter)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:29pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/1 "2022-03-07T12:29:18Z")
It seems that we’ve already beaten the current gas hikes to death but since we saw similar price hikes in the past (1970’s Arab Oil Embargo) I’m wondering what changes worked, what failed and why. For myself, increasing Domestic production protected us from supply shortages but had little effect on price so I’d give that a “B”. I’d give increased EV development/sales an “B+”, especially for folks who already bought one, except Covid exposed our reliance on Foreign chip production so for the rest of us only I’d give it.“D”. Likewise CAFE standards have produced remarkable developments in performance and efficiency in all vehicles so that get’s an “A” but some of that savings has been spent on inefficient vehicle designs so I’d drop that to a class average of “B”. So what does the smartest kid in the class think and how would they prepare for the next test? ---
**Author:** ![bloody\_knuckles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@bloody\_knuckles](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bloody_knuckles)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 1:08pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/2 "2022-03-07T13:08:13Z")
I would say that what we have learned from every previous gas price shock (including 2008/2009) is that people wring their hands, criticize the president in power, and rush out to buy more fuel efficient cars. Once prices drop again (and they always have) everyone quickly forgets about how bad gas prices can get and they rush out to buy big SUV’s and even bigger trucks that most of them don’t need. Watch and see… ---
**Author:** ![VDCdriver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/vdcdriver/32/30_2.png) [@VDCdriver](https://community.cartalk.com/u/VDCdriver)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/3 "2022-03-07T14:05:02Z")
+1 to everything that bloody\_knuckles stated! Additionally, every time I see people sitting in their cars for _extended_ periods of time with the engine idling while they play with their phones (or otherwise run the engine needlessly), I am reminded that a whole lot of people haven’t learned _anything_ about saving money on their gas purchases. They can’t do without their A/C or their heater for a few minutes? Someone can’t really be that concerned about fuel costs if he/she does things like that. When I was still working, I used to commute through a rural/suburban area, and there were several homes where _Mommie-Dearest_ would fire-up her gargantuan SUV in order to drive her kid to the end of the driveway–where they would sit with the engine running-- while waiting for the school bus. These driveways were no more than 100 feet long, but apparently that was too far for their kids to walk and/or their kids couldn’t endure the rigors of the weather if they stood outside for 5 minutes or so. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/4 "2022-03-07T14:30:57Z")
I literally thought this was about gas shocks when I read the title….like, the suspension dampeners lol. So I’m not going to be the sharpest kid in class. ---
**Author:** ![bloody\_knuckles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@bloody\_knuckles](https://community.cartalk.com/u/bloody_knuckles)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/5 "2022-03-07T14:39:02Z")
Now THAT made me laugh!!! ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/6 "2022-03-07T14:57:27Z")
Around 2001 when gas prices climbed to… Gasp! $1.90!! … I owned a 7.4 liter 3/4 ton Suburban that got 11 mpg highway. I was the only person in my office that said I’d like to see the price go HIGHER to get the blinkin’ trucks and SUVs off the road to make more room for ME! And so we’d make more intelligent decisions about oil use and energy production in general. I was racing quite a bit at that time and used every bit of that 7.4 liters of Subby to pull my race car but I lived 10 minutes from work so I used very little fuel commuting. Plus I had a company car and a gas account. If certain groups had listened to science 30 years ago and not protested the building of nuclear reactors, we’d have safer thorium nuclear reactors making nice clean electricity with far less nuclear waste (we knew about this almost 50 years ago) so we could use the electricity for cars and busses and oil for things other than fuel. Maybe GM’s EV1 might have succeeded as NiMh batteries were introduced. Maybe we could also be using natural gas for vehicles that can’t use batteries for power… like semi trucks. In any event, we wouldn’t be arguing about solar and wind, which won’t solve our clean energy problem, only help it along a bit… Darkness and windless days being “issues” and all. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/7 "2022-03-07T15:07:58Z")
> [@Beancounter](#): > > For myself, increasing Domestic production protected us from supply shortages but had little effect on price so I’d give that a “B”. Nope. Increasing production cut prices by about half in the last several years. Had we not done that, we’d have been at $100/bbl or more before this war, so prices now would be $150+. ---
**Author:** ![pyrolord314](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6a8cbe/32.png) [@pyrolord314](https://community.cartalk.com/u/pyrolord314)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/8 "2022-03-07T15:40:01Z")
> [@Beancounter](#): > > So what does the smartest kid in the class think and how would they prepare for the next test? Educate people to try and help them to realize that 1. the president has 0 control over the price of gas other than releasing some of the SPR 2. realize that the oil companies don’t care about anything other than their bottom line and will use any kind of upheaval as an excuse to drive up prices as much as they believe the market will tolerate > [@Mustangman](#): > > If certain groups had listened to science 30 years ago and not protested the building of nuclear reactors, we’d have safer thorium nuclear reactors making nice clean electricity with far less nuclear waste (we knew about this almost 50 years ago) so we could use the electricity for cars and busses and oil for things other than fuel. +1, my kids old soccer coach and his wife both used to work for TMI and can’t stand the anti-nuclear folks who would hyper focus on one issue and ignore the benefits for nuclear power ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/9 "2022-03-07T15:45:52Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > If certain groups had listened to science 30 years ago and not protested the building of nuclear reactors, we’d have safer thorium nuclear reactors making nice clean electricity with far less nuclear waste (we knew about this almost 50 years ago) so we could use the electricity for cars and busses and oil for things other than fuel Not debating what you’re saying here, because I’m the kid who thought we were going to talk about Monroe VS Gabriel or KYB, but are we certain nuclear reactors are safer than “climate change” and that the nuclear waste (whatever amount is generated) is safer than…carbon? I haven’t researched nuclear power, but just the word “nuclear” gives a lot of us a little apprehension. Obviously all of them, most of them, or possibly any of them aren’t ever going to be a Chernobyl, but half a Chernobyl certainly seems worse than even several Valdeze’s. I mean the Chernobyl folks were negligent I’m sure, technology has advanced, etc, but still. Stuff happens. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/10 "2022-03-07T15:49:32Z")
Comparing modern reactors to Chernobyl is like comparing modern air travel to the Hindenberg… ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/11 "2022-03-07T15:50:54Z")
> [@pyrolord314](#): > > Educate people to try and help them to realize that 1. the president has 0 control over the price of gas other than releasing some of the SPR 2. I don’t want this to be a political issue, so let’s ignore what party did this or that, but you don’t think limiting the supply through certain legislative acts, or conversely, loosening restrictions on drilling can have ANY affect on the price of oil? That just cannot ever happen? I disagree. May need further education. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/12 "2022-03-07T15:55:47Z")
> [@texases](#): > > Comparing modern reactors to Chernobyl is like comparing modern air travel to the Hindenberg… Yeah, yeah. I did say I’m sure technology has advanced, etc, etc. But there can’t be a disastrous problem with a modern reactor? Modern planes never crash? I’m not saying I’m definitely anti nuclear. I’m asking questions. And then you skipped my question on the waste. Is it still some crap you have to bury in a mountain in the desert for 1000 years and how much would there be? How enviro is it in comparison? ---
**Author:** ![Champ31957](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/87869e/32.png) [@Champ31957](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Champ31957)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/13 "2022-03-07T15:59:47Z")
You are correct. The President does not have control over the prices that the oil companies set, but he DOES have control over the taxes imposed on these oil companies. President Clinton showed that. “No problem, free market. Charge what you want for gas but I’m issuing an Executive Order (we have a budget crisis). For every ten cents over the average price of $2 a gallon, I’m going to charge an extra $2 in taxes. Solved the problem when Clinton was President. Remember from history folks. We forget quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Mustangman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/mustangman/32/44130_2.png) [@Mustangman](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Mustangman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/14 "2022-03-07T15:59:48Z")
> [@Scrapyard-John](#): > > half a Chernobyl certainly seems worse than even several Valdeze’s Thorium reactors can’t go “Chernobyl” by design. Less waste and what there is can be recycled but can’t be made into bombs. Win-win-win. No carbon dioxide output. Wikipedia actually has a decent explanation. > **[Thorium-based nuclear power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power)** > > Thorium-based nuclear power generation is fueled primarily by the nuclear fission of the isotope uranium-233 produced from the fertile element thorium. A thorium fuel cycle can offer several potential advantages over a uranium fuel cycle\[Note 1\]—including the much greater abundance of thorium found on Earth, superior physical and nuclear fuel properties, and reduced nuclear waste production. One advantage of thorium fuel is its low weaponization potential; it is difficult to weaponize the urani... ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/15 "2022-03-07T16:06:16Z")
Look to Three Mile Island and Fukushima to understand worst case situations with more modern designs. Few or 0 direct deaths, and TMI studies fail to show long-term additional deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/16 "2022-03-07T16:07:42Z")
> [@Mustangman](#): > > Thorium reactors can’t go “Chernobyl” by design I understand, I was meaning that more as a reference to “worst case scenario”, rather than literally. Any idea what the worst case scenario would be in the event of an “oopsie”. Is there ever going to be a scenario where I might wind up making the comment that “You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.” 😁 ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/17 "2022-03-07T16:08:11Z")
And there is no zero-risk option here. Solar and wind cannot support 100% of our needs without huge battery backup systems, which are hugely expensive and environmentally (and politically) destructive. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/18 "2022-03-07T16:11:20Z")
> [@texases](#): > > And there is no zero-risk option here. Solar and wind cannot support 100% of our needs without huge battery backup systems, which are hugely expensive and environmentally (and politically) destructive. Understood. Just investigating which risk is greater rather than going “yay, no more climate problems”. I think that’s a wise thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![texases](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/cartalk/user_avatar/community.cartalk.com/texases/32/862_2.png) [@texases](https://community.cartalk.com/u/texases)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/19 "2022-03-07T16:14:13Z")
As for nuclear, the US has 93 plants operating, so it’s not a new thing. France gets 70% of their electricity from 53 plants. A long history of safe operation. Fear is the enemy of nuclear power. ---
**Author:** ![Scrapyard-John](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Scrapyard-John](https://community.cartalk.com/u/Scrapyard-John)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859/20 "2022-03-07T16:22:41Z")
In the pictures of the 3 mile island event on Wikipedia…Jimmy Carter’s suit is outstanding, btw. Appears the other reactor was shut down not long ago, apparently couldn’t compete with cheap natural gas (what I gathered from the article, not my personal opinion). Is it an example of a “modern reactor” like we are discussing? [Next page](https://community.cartalk.com/t/what-have-we-learned-from-prior-gas-shocks/182859.md?page=2)