Yes, I’m aware that chains don’t last forever, but they often last the life of the vehicle, unlike a timing belt
" . . . they will start rattling long before that."
It sounds like you’re essentially agreeing with me
@db4690 Yes, with any luck a timing chain would never have to be replaced. The main point I was making that they give a lot of warning, unlike timing belts.
I haven’t had any experience with a bad timing chain yet so I have a question. This rattling that you talk about, will it be all the time that the engine is running or will it start making noise when the engine is started. My Saturn now has almost 165k miles on it and it makes an annoying rattle/knock just as the engine starts. It lasts for less than a second and then the engine is smooth and quiet. I have been assuming that it is a heat shield rattling, but I can’t find any loose heat shields.
It has been doing this for about 50k miles now. I don’t plan on putting in a new chain, just drive till it breaks and then junk it. I have gotten my moneys worth out of it. But the answer could affect any future decisions on whether I take the car on another cross country trip. Not that it will stop me, I’ll just take a backpack so I can throw my stuff in and leave the car. I will make arrangements for its disposal before grabbing another form of transportation home.
Another thing to remember about timing chains:
If it’s a DOHC V6 or V8, replacing that chain will be far more costly than replacing a timing belt.
And if it’s a V engine with 3 chains, which is actually not uncommon . . .
It doesn’t sound like a collapsed lifter, it doesn’t last long enough. I don’t think a lifter can pump up that fast. It is less than a second.
@keith The rattle is steady and sounds as if there was a diesel under the hood. That’s for a Chevy V8. The noise is constant and you hear it more when driving slowly since at higher speed the noise is drowned out by other noises. Any good mechanic can instantly pinpoint it.
Generally spark plugs will last forever if all maintenance schedules are kept and plugs are cleaned and gapped. If you have oil on your spark plugs you need to have the problem fixed. There are a couple of ways to go about this- (A) replace engine with low mileage engine (B) Rebuild the Engine you have © do a minor overhaul replacing all your gaskets and seals checking for any mechanical fatigue… You will need to have the heads pulled cleaned and machined before the seals are replaced. Best thing to do is to have the shop remove and reinstall the heads, but you take the heads to a reputable machine shop to be sure the work is done and done correctly. What you have is seals on the valves that are leaking causing your problem. This problem should have ben noticed by the shop you used. If the belt was installed incorrectly then the problem would be all the time, not intermittent. Your car has high mileage so you’re going to have these issues with the high dollar repairs. All Japanese Motors of Orlando has great deals on engines for your car with 50,000 miles on them. Overseas the emissions control standards requires that engines be replaced when they reach 50,000 miles. Good luck, hope you get it running right.
db, wish I could answer your questions but the noise passes so quickly, I can’t pinpoint it any closer than under the hood. It feels like the engine rocks over hard at start and I thought the exhaust pipe was hitting something, but the last time I inspected under there there was a lot of room around the exhaust pipes and they are in very good shape and solidly mounted (no broken hangers that is).
Docnick, the sound duration is about or less than one second, too quick to pinpoint. The engine is very quiet when running, especially considering the miles on it. It does sound like a diesel engine starting up, but only for that one second.
May be a spun Bearing
@keith A noisy timing belt is noisy all the time the engine is running, so you have something else here.
Toyotatalk, I know what a spun bearing sounds like and this isn’t it.
Docnick, thanks, that was the answer I was hoping for. I’m not going to worry about it. BTW, I didn’t mention this, but it doesn’t always make this noise, but about 90% of the time it does. It is not getting worse, it hasn’t changed since it started.
The sure fire way to see if your timing is right is to use a timing light. Some auto part stores may assist you with the test if you ask and it only takes a minute. They could have did the install incorrect and did a startup on your car only to find out its wrong and re-due the timing. They may have bent one of your valves. It’s hard to tell what’s wrong with it not being able to actually hear it.
Toyotatalk, the timing chain has never been checked. I have to admit that I did hijack this thread, but it had already gone off topic and so I added this “Oh by the way” question, my bad. That is why you probably got confused. BTW, there are no timing marks on a Saturn engine so a timing light doesn’t do you any good.
You check the timing by removing the upper timing chain cover, turn the engine until a mark on the pulley (visible only from the front of the engine with the inner fender cover removed) lines up with a dimple on the lower timing cover and the word FWD on the cam sprocket lines up with the valve cover rail at the 2 o’clock position.
The chain could be stretched.
Yes, it could be after 265k miles, it probably is, but is it stretched enough to be the cause of that noise at startup? Sounds like no, when it gets that bad, it will make noise all the time. I also suspect that when it does reach that point, it will get progressively worse.
I am mildly curious as to the source of the noise, but at this point in my life, I have finally learned that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Well, if your tensioner and or belt are lax before start-up then it could cause the noise once you start it due to pulling from the lax state. It could be loose or damaged flywheel bolts too. My buddy had a similar issue with his Ford Focus- had hard start up lack of power and just hit and miss with day to day running. At that kind of mileage it’s good PM to take care of soon being that you have an interference motor.
Sorry for dredging up an old post, but I may have run across an answer to the noise. On a Saturn forum discussion on catalytic converters, on of the members mentioned that as the cat was going out in his Saturn, it made a small rattling noise for a second right at start up from loose debris in the cat. He also said that the car had lost a little power due to the restricted cat.
Mine isn’t pulling the hills like it used to as I noticed on my last cross country trip so, Oh Boy. At least fixing a cat is easier than replacing a timing chain, if I chose to do anything.
BTW, this is just for feedback, I am not trying to drag this discussion out any longer.